F/A-18C vs F/A-18E in AtoA

SU34 · by **SU34** » 09 Mar 2005, 03:38

Yes Yes im a newbie

But how about this one Old vs New...the only reason I brought this comparison up is because all the trash I hear about the new Super Hornet...So, which one would prevail in air to air combat?

smorriso · by **smorriso** » 09 Mar 2005, 04:38

What "trash" have you heard about the Rhino? Both are very capapble Hi-AOA platforms.

SU34 · by **SU34** » 09 Mar 2005, 05:01

Heard that in a navy report a senior official said that the F/A-18E was superior to the F/A-18C in every aspect except acceleration, max speed, and sustained turn rate or sustained energy or something like that...basically the characteristics that make a fighter plane a fighter plane

smorriso · by **smorriso** » 09 Mar 2005, 05:21

This has been discussed in great detail in the <a href="http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-656.html">F-16 versus SH thread</a>. I'd take the Rhino over the Charlie any day.

ximeno · by **ximeno** » 11 Mar 2005, 08:16

The E/F are in every way better to the c/d. It holds more munitions, fuel, is 30% larger than the a/b/c/d's, its made with 40% fewer parts, can be produce in faster time than any current a/c with less man hrs per a/c. Its stealther than the c. Its a mechanics dream as far as trouble shooting, it takes less maintenance hrs per flight than any navy planes currently, went from drawing to full production including flight test in less than 10 years (heh the F-22 is still in development after 20 years), cost less than 60 mil per a/c and its ON-Schedual and under budget . The flight controls move faster than you can blink because of the higher hydralic psi ( FA-18E/F 5000, FA-18 a,b,c,d 3000)

All in all there is no comparison.

SwedgeII · by **SwedgeII** » 13 Mar 2005, 14:55

well actually the old 18s were "slightly" better at dog fighting, but the new ones are better at EVERYTHING else including avionics, and waaaaay better in range & payload. You cant dog fight if you cant GET to the fight!!!!

SU34 · by **SU34** » 13 Mar 2005, 19:16

SwedgeII wrote:well actually the old 18s were "slightly" better at dog fighting, but the new ones are better at EVERYTHING else including avionics, and waaaaay better in range & payload. You cant dog fight if you cant GET to the fight!!!!

Yes but given the engagement was within range so as to allow both aircraft to engage in bvr and wvr which aircraft would prevail? Both have the same radar right now? APG-73? But the older hornet accelerates better, turns better, and has a higher top speed. I know the new hornet has a lower RCS but once you start hanging stores off it, is it really going to make a big difference?

toan · by **toan** » 04 Apr 2006, 16:08

F/A-18E versus F-22A in dog-fight.......................

Lawman · by **Lawman** » 05 Apr 2006, 04:02

toan wrote:F/A-18E versus F-22A in dog-fight.......................

You just made my day.

Guysmiley · by **Guysmiley** » 05 Apr 2006, 15:24

19 degrees AOA, 210 knots 30 degree nose down... The Hornet excels at one thing: dumping energy!

elp · by **elp** » 05 Apr 2006, 17:02

F-18E/F is uninspired junk. It happens to work OK even after all the criminal procurement. A very excellent strike aircraft in that you could have put all that wiz bang gear on something that wasn't hacked together and was properly prototyped as opposed to lashed together and band aid fixed. ( sorry teething troubles isn't an excuse on this pig ). Almost any "modern" fighter jet made in the last 30 years can contempt of engagement the thing because it can't chase you down. Find all the admirals, congress, industry pukes that slide this thing by congress and put them in jail. Throw away the key. Call me when we get the mess that is the carrier air wing flying hardware.... back up to where it should be ( no peer group ).

elp · by **elp** » 05 Apr 2006, 17:05

toan wrote:F/A-18E versus F-22A in dog-fight.......................

That is WVR. Which is just that and nothing more. Real combat v the F-22 or even Big SU for that matter... is the sound of F-18E/F rescue beacons over the airwaves from ejections, if the crew are even that lucky.

183KIAS Real smart slick. :lol:

Lawman · by **Lawman** » 05 Apr 2006, 18:12

Guysmiley wrote:19 degrees AOA, 210 knots 30 degree nose down... The Hornet excels at one thing: dumping energy!

Its called a One-Circle fight. Something the Hornet has used very effectively to kill aircraft such as the F-15 and F-16 in training. For ever F-16 that has waxed a Hornet in a two circle there is a Hornet that waxed an F-16 in a one circle. Fly your plane the way it fights best.

Oh and Elp, remind me who's in who's gunsight with the trigger down? All this crap about how a Hornet lacks any Air to Air ability and yet he gets a gun kill on an aircraft that most consider to be nearly unbeatable. Score one for the "Slow Fat Kid."

Guysmiley · by **Guysmiley** » 05 Apr 2006, 18:41

Lawman wrote:Fly your plane the way it fights best

If that's the case, then a Raptor pilot would play AMRAAM whack-a-mole from 50k feet, then go home.

A SH is dangerous close in... so is an Su-27Mkblahblahblah. Which is why you just don't get in close to them. As someone has pointed out in these forums before, WVR with HOBS AAMs means everybody dies.

elp · by **elp** » 05 Apr 2006, 19:14

Lawman wrote:
Guysmiley wrote:19 degrees AOA, 210 knots 30 degree nose down... The Hornet excels at one thing: dumping energy!

Its called a One-Circle fight. Something the Hornet has used very effectively to kill aircraft such as the F-15 and F-16 in training. For ever F-16 that has waxed a Hornet in a two circle there is a Hornet that waxed an F-16 in a one circle. Fly your plane the way it fights best.

Oh and Elp, remind me who's in who's gunsight with the trigger down? All this crap about how a Hornet lacks any Air to Air ability and yet he gets a gun kill on an aircraft that most consider to be nearly unbeatable. Score one for the "Slow Fat Kid."

Which again proves..... nothing. An F-22 is not going to be dumb enough to get into WVR unless it is a last resort. And then it would be suprising to see in their classified tactics manual, why someone would be dumb enough to put a F-22 into tight WVR. Any F-22 guy that does that real world without absolute dire need to kill a jet now, needs to be fired and put back into doing checkrides back in the states or moved on to something non combat oriented. Not with my money. F-22 doesn't have to play the game of a legacy jet. It can.... and it will get "killed" in evaluatons, as it is going to be put up against a lot of things . But don't confuse that will how it will be used. A legacy jet will be just so much dead meat. The best flight planing for the legacy jet is to make sure your will is all up to date.

Hornet has good A2A ability. Super Hornet does not. Not for all the gigadollars we wasted on it. A big SU trying to get through is just going to drive right around it, out of arms reach. It will be like pugsly trying to run and catch buckwheat. :lol: