F-35B UK SRVL info - Updated when new/old info available

mcraptor wrote:Fine. I'll create a new thread for it.

Or you could just use the search function on this forum and look at any of the dozens of threads that already talk about this issue?

The thread, "F-35B and JSOW" might be where I'd start...

From the overthepagedescription of INCEPTORS UNIFIED for the F-35B I'm wondering if through computer wizardry and just my guesswork IF during an SRVL on touchdown - instead of engine going to idle via the 'contact switch' (used for VLs) that SAFELY the engine can AUTOMATICALLY enable some reverse thrust via that 105 degree nozzle (yes no scorching the paintwork on deck) that will help with decel?

"...A throttle-type left hand inceptor, incorporating two detents, commands longitudinal acceleration.

Putting the inceptor in the centre detent holds the current speed. Acceleration or deceleration is selected by moving the lever forward or aft of the detent, with full travel demanding maximum available performance. Decelerating through 35 kt ground speed starts a blend and below 25 kt the aft detent commands zero ground speed. Either side of the aft detent gives the pilot a closed loop control of ground speed up to 30 kt forwards or backwards...." I WONDER.
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For some more info on the backwardness of the Bee go here: (stroll down) [page 1 this thread]

F-35 Flight Testing At Pax [excerpt] By Eric Hehs 15 October 2012

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... rds#233535

RN weather experts prepare for new carriers with US Navy 9 Nov 12 distributed by noodls on 10/11/2012

http://www.noodls.com/view/3FBA6956CA64 ... EB4B916EFB

"Two Royal Navy meteorologists are enjoying a taste of forecasting on board the US Navy supercarrier USS Harry S Truman.

Lieutenant Anna Townsend and Leading Seaman Paul Allen, both based with the Royal Naval Hydrographic Unit at HM Naval Base Devonport in Plymouth, are working for three months on board the Nimitz Class aircraft carrier.

The duo are learning about the differences in forecasting on a ship five times the size of Britain's current carriers to pave the way for the Royal Navy's return to large-scale aircraft carrier operations, complete with specially designed jets, when the HMS Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales enter service.

Lt Townsend said:
"This has been an excellent opportunity to see how the US Navy provides hydrographic and meteorological support to strike operations and will definitely assist me in the set-up and execution of operations on the Royal Navy's future carriers."

The 100,000-tonne ship is exercising off the eastern seaboard of the United States and undergoing training in the Atlantic. This is another piece of the huge jigsaw preparing the Royal Navy for the two largest ships it has built.

However, there are clear differences in the size of the ships, the technology used, and the use of meteorological information which is vital for operating aircraft from the flight deck. For example, the US Navy produces a main 72-hour forecast to a range of 50 nautical miles (93km) from the ship, whereas Royal Navy forecasts look at the next 12 hours to a distance of 100 miles (160km).

For any carrier operations wind is needed to blow over the deck in order to launch and recover aircraft - typically 20 to 30 knots (38-55km/h) aboard the USS Harry S Truman. For safe operations there must be a minimal crosswind and a ship's roll of no more than two degrees.

As part of her Royal Naval training, Lt Townsend has also received warfare instruction. This means she can not only provide forecasting for carrier missions, but also support mission planning which focuses on how an aircraft's sensors and weaponry will perform over a target area - all dependent on weather.

Her experience on board the USS Harry S Truman is giving Lt Townsend a very useful insight into her likely role aboard the HMS Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales.

And the US Navy's insight into the training given to Royal Navy hydrographers and meteorologists prompted them to inquire about receiving it themselves.

Lt Townsend has recently returned from the Gulf where she provided expert advice aboard HMS Daring and Diamond - which both worked with US carriers during their deployments in the region.

Leading Seaman Allen can call on almost 20 years' experience as a meteorological observer ashore and afloat. He was impressed by the size of the US ship.

He said:
"Berthing and messing arrangements are on a large scale, but then you have to cater for 5,000 people.

"At the end of the day you are here to do a job and that is to provide forecasting support to naval aviation and operations in every way you can."

The USS Harry S Truman is one of ten Nimitz Class supercarriers and is home to 5,500 sailors and air group personnel - supporting up to 90 aircraft and helicopters. The under-build Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth Class carriers will be two-thirds of the size with 1,600 personnel aboard and 40 or so F-35 jump jets and helicopters.

Living arrangements aboard the USS Harry S Truman are much the same though, with the enlisted sailors (known in the Royal Navy as ratings) in 30 to 100-man messes, while officers are in one to four-man cabins."

For 'popcorn' from previous page about 'barriers'... HEAPS of good info about barricades here:

LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER REFERENCE MANUAL (REV. B) 1999

http://www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/N ... bs/LSO.pdf (5.5Mb) Get it while you can.

New version c.2009 not yet available on t'internet.

LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER REFERENCE MANUAL (REV. B) 2009

http://www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/N ... bs/LSO.pdf (5.5Mb)

"...1.2.6 Effects of Deck Motion. During flight operations, deck motion seldom exceeds ±1.5 degrees pitch, ±2.2 degrees in roll, and 5.5 feet in heave...."

spazsinbad wrote:For 'popcorn' from previous page about 'barriers'... HEAPS of good info about barricades here:

LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER REFERENCE MANUAL (REV. B) 1999

http://www.sludgehornet.com/downloads/N ... bs/LSO.pdf (5.5Mb) Get it while you can.

New version c.2009 not yet available on t'internet.

Thanks Spaz..
RECTUM NON BUSTOS - Don't 'Bust Your a$$.. how apropriate

From title page of 'LANDING SIGNAL OFFICER REFERENCE MANUAL' PDF

I think these online Flight Global Archive PDF pages have probably been mentioned already in the 'very long thread' but this time not only are they mentioned but attached. Farley again on INCEPTS from: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/ ... 02360.html

For 'popcorn' imagining 'Toko-Ri Bridges' here is some LSO info (the tractor/crane scenario is too ugly to contemplate).

http://thanlont.blogspot.com.au/2012/11 ... d-lso.html

"A readily available example of the activity on the LSO platform is provided by the excellent movie, Bridges at Toko-Ri."

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-pArF85wGh2E/U ... Barrel.jpg

No wonder those decks did not MELT. I thought there was something fishy....

‘How Carrier operations Work’ By Steve George BSc MSc CEng FRAeS Cdr RN

http://www.phoenixthinktank.org/2012/03 ... #_ftnref31

"...[31] The steel that is used to build CVN flight decks is specially toughened and treated to resist the thermal and mechanical loads without bending or cracking. Its composition is a closely guarded secret and it is made to special order only for the USN."

http://www.phoenixthinktank.org/wp-cont ... opsPTT.pdf (4.5Mb)

Hopefully none of those secret formulas / methodology ever gets leaked out to the likes of China / Iran / N. Korea.

Strolling thru my stuff came across this tall tale but true from the leg end ary past. It highlights the hazards faced by even a small aircraft on a CVS (probably around mid 1960s even though APPROACH date is 1968) even when youse get hooked. Good oh the pilot survived. One can see the concern about deck conditions for SRVL - what we don't know at this point are what any safety criteria might be for CVF deck conditions/sea state WX etc.

If worst comes to worst then SRVL can always be abandoned and a standard VL could be utilised, it will just be more expensive dropping valuable equipment into the drink, its there purely to save running costs and one of the few benefits of the B is that versatility in how it can be landed. The harriers managed mostly OK in landing on the far far smaller deck area of the invincibles, they probably wont know what to do with all the room of the CVF's deck.

Pushing large helos around on a small deck is no joke. The possibility that F-35Bs on CVFs will cohabit with a tonne of these whirlybirds will make the extra deck a real boon. I am sure no one will mind losing a few mil of expensive ordnance every now and then when SRVLs are verboten. Better the expensive bits rather than risk losing not only a very expensive F-35B - BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CVF AND HER CREW!

spazsinbad wrote:Pushing large helos around on a small deck is no joke. The possibility that F-35Bs on CVFs will cohabit with a tonne of these whirlybirds will make the extra deck a real boon. I am sure no one will mind losing a few mil of expensive ordnance every now and then when SRVLs are verboten. Better the expensive bits rather than risk losing not only a very expensive F-35B - BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CVF AND HER CREW!

Remind me again why we bought "an over priced and over spec white elephant" please

The CVF's will be good old bird farms and that extra deck space will always be welcomed.