Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA

F-18E radar blocker.

PAK-FA air intake:



Rafale air intake:



Sorry man but about a half of PAK-FA engine's turbine is visible in contrary to about one tenth of Rafale's turbine. Note Rafale is not classic stealth fighter but rather LO planes with RCS=0.1 sqm in most estimates. I am sure X-32 was rejected in X-35 favour also due to that fact.

PAK-FA is not a plane in the same league. No stupid "fan blockers" made in Russia can change that. Russkies created some quite oddly freak with RCS similar to Western planes designed 20 years ago...

@ultor

That is photo I was talking about. Someone tried to convince us that is engine fan blades.

Here is that shiny blade photo compared with 117s photo which can be found on internet. Definitely same blades. Blades are little rotated but still you can see same lighting on them.

Also here is example of X-32 intake. It looks even worse then PAK-FA

So this Russian freak will be in Superhornet's and Gripen's "stealth" league. Not a match for 5th generation fighters. Russkies should go build more roads because their aviation industry is still deep in backward Sobiet era.

ultor wrote:Sorry man but about a half of PAK-FA engine's turbine is visible in contrary to about one tenth of Rafale's turbine. Note Rafale is not classic stealth fighter but rather LO planes with RCS=0.1 sqm in most estimates. I am sure X-32 was rejected in X-35 favour also due to that fact.

You didn't even bother in watching the X-32 photos:






And the X-32 had the same RCS requirements as the X-35, but wasn't chosen because the S/VTOL system overheated.

Dear tads (aka irkut?) - I have another wonderful story for you: Russkie fanboys now claim 117S engine has turbine fans made with stealth material! No "fan blockers" are needed - stealth engine is enough! How many idiotic theories from "Pogo's fake department" will we hear tomorrow?

All we know is ALL US 5th generation fighters and Western Eurocanards have hidden air intakes and apparently not without reason. We do not know exactly all reasons why X-32 was rejected, maybe also not without reason! Russkies are developed PAK-FA air intakes hoping most possibly on false assumption they can reduce its RCS to F-22/F-35 level or their real goal was RCS=0.5 sqm according to Indian sources. Anyway it seems all they can achieve is Superhornet's level. Great!

ultor wrote:So this Russian freak will be in Superhornet's and Gripen's "stealth" league. Not a match for 5th generation fighters. Russkies should go build more roads because their aviation industry is still deep in backward Sobiet era.

X-32 used huge radar blocker and still no one ever said it is in F-18E league.

Yet everyone knows Russian stealth technology is 30 years behind American. Exactly in Gripen's and Suerphornets' beginnings era.

All we know is ALL US 5th generation fighters and Western Eurocanards have hidden air intakes and apparently not without reason.

You are ignoring the X-32 again.

We do not know exactly all reasons why X-32 was rejected, maybe also not without reason!

As I said before, it was due the V/STOL overheating. You seem to think that Boeing can't make a stealth aircraft, yet you claim that the chinese can make one.

Russkies are developed PAK-FA air intakes basing on false assumption they can reduce its RCS to F-22/F-35 level. Yet it seems all they can achieve is Superhornet's level.

They developed the intakes after years of R&D, and billions of dollars, not on an assumption/hope/wish or whatever.

Yet everyone knows Russian stealth technology is 30 years behind American. Exactly in Gripen's and Suerphornets' beginnings era.

It seems that every reliable source, expert and analyst disagrees with you.

X-32 was not put into production, buddy. Your reasons are not all of possible reasons. Anyway X-32 could have had stealthiness similar to X-35 but it does not mean PAK-FA will do the same due to following reasons:

- only in your false imagination Russkies are in position to quickly close 30 years wide gap in stealth technology for several billion bucks (how many of 8-10 billion bucks of PAK-FA budget was spent so far? Have Hindu already sponsored Russkies a bit?). Or maybe Russkies borrowed 150 billion bucks in Western banks to achieve that goal?

- very reliable source is REALITY - Russkies did not build NEVER EVER ANY STEALTH PLANE. US have been doing this constantly for 30 years through four generations of stealth technology. Even Western Europe could not design similar planes. So don't tell me BS about claims made by some "stealth experts" like for instance Pogo and his "clever" statement about F-22 stealth. Got it, buddy?

- yes, Chinese can build 5th generation fighter but 20 years after X-32 project was ended. It is enough time and PRC has enough money and R&D potential to do that successfully. Russkies are in much worse situation now being as beggar put between two real superpowers. That is why I think first F-22 true rival will emerge in China sooner or later. Russia PAK-FAKE will be only a minor clown in some flying circus then.

X-32 was not put into production, buddy. Your reasons are not all of possible reasons. Anyway X-32 could have had stealthiness similar to X-35 but it does not mean PAK-FA will do the same due to following reasons:

Are you suggesting that Boeing can't make a stealth plane?

- only in your false imagination Russkies are in position to 30 years old gap in stealth technology for several billion bucks (how any of 8-10 billion PAK-FA budget was spent so far? Have Hindu already sponsored Russkies a bit?). Or maybe did Russkie borrowed 150 billion bucks in Western banks to achieve that goal?

You started to insult me very early, thats very unpolite. Nobody is denying the Russians are behind the Americans in stealth technology, but 30 years is a grossly exageration.

- very reliable source is REALITY - Russkies did not build NEVER EVER ANY STEALTH PLANE.

Your logic is flawed, just because they didn't do it before doesn't mean they can't do it now. If the world worked that way, we would be living in caves right now.

US have been doing this constantly for 30 years though four generation of stealth technologies. Even Western Europe could not design similar planes. So don't tell me BS about claims some "stealth experts" like possibly Pogo and his "clever" statements about F-22 stealth. Got it, buddy

When I mean "experts" I am not talking about "Pogo" or whatever, I am talking about EVERY western source that have called the PAK-FA a "5th generation stealth fighter".

- yes, Chinese can build 5th generation fighter but 20 years after X-32 project was ended. It is enough time and PRC has enough money and R&D potential to do that successfully. Russkies are in much worse situation now being put between two real superpowers. That is why I think first F-22 true rival will emerge in China sooner or later.

The chinese are decades behind USA/Europe/Russia in fighter technology, their best fighter is a copy of the Su-27, with inferior performance than the original. Not to mention that China doesn't have the scientific power of the Russians, like it or not.

Russia PAK-FAKE will be only a minor clown in some flying circus then.

Wow, your objectivity and serious analisys impresses me.

Note to Ultor:

If you want to have any respect and impact on F-16.net forum you first need to have respect for others. Your constant disrespect, cheap use of smilies and yes, blabbering will get you nowhere w/ the most of us.

Chill out and learn to discuss a topic, whether you agree or disagree with someone.

Respects-

Maybe true, Milosh. And maybe everyone has made some wrong choices in the past? I vote to drop the cheap bickering, but that's just me. Respects-

tads,

Your thinking is fair, whether one agrees fully with it or not. Don't get tied up too much by any one poster getting hysterical over an opinion. imo.

Well tads, your "knowledgeable opinions" are simply wishful thinking that replicates Russian propaganda:

- as I pointed out above maybe Boeing could design X-32 being on par with X-35 in stealth but it proves absolutely nothing because Russkie backwardness in stealth technology much more likely allows them to achieve Superhornet's level of turbine RCS reduction. However there is also possible that secret X-32 and X-35 tests proved X-32 air intake concept is worse than S-duct as for RCS reduction, reliability etc. By the way those "turbine radar blockers" are most likely a fake: photographed PAK-FA air intakes does not have any such blocker and linked on YT its working concept is 3D-artwork made by some Russkie fanboy.

- as I can see your fanatic believing in Russian advanced stealth is irrational. Russkies did not create ANY STEALTH PLANE! Do you suggest now they can develop F-22's stealth equivalent? That is wishful thinking again.

- so called "EVERY Western source" simply repeating official Russkie claim about PAK-FA being "5th generation fighter". Unfortunately such a plane has to meet very detailed requirements and now PAK-FA does not meet almost any! It has no AESA radar, brand-new super-cruise engines and most importantly his airframe, air intakes, silly RAM coating "made in India" guarantee RCS level of Gripen and Superhornet class. On the other hand Russian "experts" from Pogo & Co. propagate bullshits about F-22's RCS equals to 0.2-0.4 sqm and then twaddle PAk-FA will match F-22 stealth. That way sure - they are "right"!

- You probably don't know what is going on in Chinese military industry. Both Russia and China are now twenty years behind the West in aviation technology but they are now almost equal to each other! Simply Chinese acquired almost all latest Soviet technology very cheap from Russkies and were able to replicate it. Thus PRC can now build 4th generation planes on par with Russian designs. Yes, buddy - future J-10 and J-11 derivatives will be equal to MiG-35 and Su-35 and WS-10 engine is a solid base to build quasi super-cruise one. The broader view is even more clear: Chinese science and technology is raising very fast while Russian is declining very quickly. China's financial resources are incomparable with Russia's ones. That is why I think PRC is in much better position to develop 5th generation fighere for a decade! On the other hand Russkie can develop only a caricature of 5th generation fighter like PAK-FAKE and therefore this plane will be most likely "minor clown" on the market dominated by F-35, Eurocanards and J-XXI - just symbol of Russkie technological downfall.

That is well enough to clear all tads fables!