Norway may no longer require drag chute

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krorvik

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Unread post24 Oct 2017, 16:15

blindpilot wrote:The icing in Norway is such that they feel they have tighter tolerances for the conditions they expect (and see) regularly. The US deployments (even of US F-35s) tend to be in what I call "can't make a snowball outa' this stuff" locations, even if the snow is 10 feet deep. They'll probably have to artificially wet/ice the runway for the tests.


One of the problems up here is the combinations that occur all too often at winter, icy, windy and wet - all at the same time. Most of the runways are close to the north atlantic, and some short too. Sometimes the worst conditions are around the 0C mark -
slippery when wet and all that.

I've seen days in southern Norway where I did not dare take my car, with real winter tires, out for a drive. Wet steel ice - better stay indoors.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post02 Nov 2017, 21:28

Demo of the brake screen on the F-35 combat plane
Defense Department Published on Jul 7, 2017

"On this video you can see the demonstration of the F-35 brake screen."


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NorwayF-35AdragChuteTestEdwards2017.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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neptune

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Unread post03 Nov 2017, 04:09

krorvik wrote:..I've seen days in southern Norway where I did not dare take my car, with real winter tires, out for a drive. Wet steel ice - better stay indoors.



.... so the chute is to keep the pointy-end going in the "right" direction?
:)
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krorvik

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Unread post03 Nov 2017, 06:59

That's one way of putting it. The main point is to apply a braking force that doesn't require the wheels to apply the brakes, at least not too hard:

On ice, there is a real risk that the brakes will lock the wheel - and once that happens, the wheel will start sliding instead of rolling. That means the friction between wheels and ground decrease dramatically. In other words, no steering. You'll only get it back when the speed is low enough. For drivers up here, that usually means hitting something solid :devil: You'll get the same effect if you turn too hard.

For plane with no traction on wheels, that would be "bambi on ice".

Found a nice youtube:

The SAS machine at the end seems to be in the high north, looks like Tromsø Airport (educated, but possibly incorrect, guess).

The chute applies a rather strong force rearwards to the aircraft, so the speed can be reduced without needing to risk that.

Even so, other forces may apply - like wind. Moar fun!
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lamoey

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 17:46

Now, two weeks shy of six years since I started this thread, I must admit that I was wrong. Norway do need, and indeed got, the drag chute. Here is a Norwegian F-35 at the welcoming ceremony today, proudly showing its drag chute mounted on the back of the aircraft.

Image below is a screen capture from http://www.nrk.no Krovik has a link to the video further down.
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RNoAF-F-35.png
RNoAF F-35 with drag chute mounted
Last edited by lamoey on 10 Nov 2017, 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 18:49

Where is that pic from?
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krorvik

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:05

There's a video here, with the full ceremony:

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/id4/

Lamøys pic seems to be a screencap from there.

("Last ned videoen" is a download link for the full video).

Ørland AB shows off it's regular weather.... some more pics here:

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/de-nye-f-3 ... 1.13772553
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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:22

Thanks, uploading to YT now.
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krorvik

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:36

There's a good chance norwegian broadcaster NRK (nrk.no) will have something to say about that, but they did provide a download link, didn't they ;)
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lamoey

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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 21:36

krorvik wrote:There's a video here, with the full ceremony:

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/id4/

Lamøys pic seems to be a screencap from there.

("Last ned videoen" is a download link for the full video).

Ørland AB shows off it's regular weather.... some more pics here:

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/de-nye-f-3 ... 1.13772553


Yes, it's about 1hr 10 minutes into the video. I guess I should have credited them, but contrary to normal I wasn't blocked with foreign IP address.
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Unread post10 Nov 2017, 22:21

The unavailing starts at 1:09:30

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krorvik

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Unread post11 Nov 2017, 08:09

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Unread post11 Nov 2017, 10:36

One of the pilots flying yesterday mentioned that he was surprised at the power he could get in the cold norwegian air, after flying @Luke.

"Defence Forum" in Norway reports that power levels from the F135 are expected to be up to *30%* higher in norway. I'm assuming this is at low level, and that it can best be exploited at low speeds.

Any comments on this from the engine people in here (30% is a significant number)?
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Unread post11 Nov 2017, 11:54

krorvik wrote:One of the pilots flying yesterday mentioned that he was surprised at the power he could get in the cold norwegian air, after flying @Luke.

"Defence Forum" in Norway reports that power levels from the F135 are expected to be up to *30%* higher in norway. I'm assuming this is at low level, and that it can best be exploited at low speeds.

Any comments on this from the engine people in here (30% is a significant number)?


30% is huge. The difference is due to the ambient air temperature. Colder air makes the engine more efficient as it is denser so the compressor section doesn't need to work as hard. This is why aircraft engines become much more efficient at higher altitudes where the air is colder.
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Unread post27 Nov 2017, 18:18

F-35A Icy Runway Testing for Norwegian Drag Chute Underway in Alaska

Maj. Jonathan “Spades” Gilber, U.S. Air Force F-35 test pilot, demonstrated the handling qualities of Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Lightning II during icy runway ground testing at Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska., the company announced on Monday, November 27. The testing is part of the certification process for the Norwegian drag chute and continues over the next several weeks. Maj. Eskil Amdal, test pilot with the Royal Norwegian Air Force, is also participating.

This initial testing is the first of two phases to ensure the F-35A can operate in these extreme conditions. The second phase of testing will deploy the Norwegian drag chute during landing operations and is planned for first quarter 2018 at Eielson...

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https://www.f35.com/news/detail/lockhee ... e-underway
https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... laska.html
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