Norway may no longer require drag chute

Design and construction
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19366
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post24 Oct 2017, 03:28

Eielson showcases F-35 as Alaskan command chief emphasizes its lethality, deployability
19 Oct 2017 Tim Ellis, KUAC

"...The road to Eielson was coated with ice Tuesday, but the Air Force officer in charge of testing the F-35’s ability to operate on icy runways said he can’t use the natural stuff that comes from precipitation.

Lt. Col. Tucker Hamilton commands the 461st Flight Test Squadron out of Edwards Air Force Base in California. And he said the controlled testing the F-35A Lightning II is undergoing at Eielson requires consistent ice thickness, in order to get valid test data.

“We have to clear the ice, then we have to put some ice down, so it’s consistent and we control the test.” Hamilton said. “So today, it’s literally just starting with steering. At five knots, how does it turn? Is it skipping at all? And then we’re going to hit the ice and slam on the brakes at different ground speeds.”

Hamilton said the Air Force has been testing F-35s for years, and he says the icy-runway tests are among the last that the state-of-the-art warplane will undergo before two squadrons begin to arrive at Eielson in 2020. He said most of the cold-weather testing at temperatures as low as 50 below took place in a climate-controlled facility at Eglin Air Force Base – in subtropical Florida. “Does the engine start? How was the maintenance on the jet? Are people’s hands too cold? Are there things freezing, with the helmet? Y’know, we did all that testing in the lab itself,” Hamilton said.

Lt. Gen. Ken Wilsbach, who heads up the Air Force’s Alaskan Command, said all that testing has proven the F-35 is well-suited for operations out of Eielson. He said the location is ideal, because it’s next door to vast expanses of airspace above the 65,000-square-mile Joint Pacific Alaska Range Complex. And he said in real-world situations, the 54 F-35s that will be stationed at Eielson will be able to take advantage of Alaska’s key global position to get to most any potential trouble spot between here and the equator within 12 hours.

“So that’s why we say Alaska is a really important, strategic location,” Wilsbach said. “Because of the technology that we have, with air-refueling, we can be in a lot of places really quick.”..."

Source: https://www.ktoo.org/2017/10/19/eielson ... oyability/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post24 Oct 2017, 16:15

blindpilot wrote:The icing in Norway is such that they feel they have tighter tolerances for the conditions they expect (and see) regularly. The US deployments (even of US F-35s) tend to be in what I call "can't make a snowball outa' this stuff" locations, even if the snow is 10 feet deep. They'll probably have to artificially wet/ice the runway for the tests.


One of the problems up here is the combinations that occur all too often at winter, icy, windy and wet - all at the same time. Most of the runways are close to the north atlantic, and some short too. Sometimes the worst conditions are around the 0C mark -
slippery when wet and all that.

I've seen days in southern Norway where I did not dare take my car, with real winter tires, out for a drive. Wet steel ice - better stay indoors.
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 19366
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post02 Nov 2017, 21:28

Demo of the brake screen on the F-35 combat plane
Defense Department Published on Jul 7, 2017

"On this video you can see the demonstration of the F-35 brake screen."


Attachments
NorwayF-35AdragChuteTestEdwards2017.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
Online
User avatar

neptune

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2598
  • Joined: 24 Oct 2008, 00:03
  • Location: Houston

Unread post03 Nov 2017, 04:09

krorvik wrote:..I've seen days in southern Norway where I did not dare take my car, with real winter tires, out for a drive. Wet steel ice - better stay indoors.



.... so the chute is to keep the pointy-end going in the "right" direction?
:)
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post03 Nov 2017, 06:59

That's one way of putting it. The main point is to apply a braking force that doesn't require the wheels to apply the brakes, at least not too hard:

On ice, there is a real risk that the brakes will lock the wheel - and once that happens, the wheel will start sliding instead of rolling. That means the friction between wheels and ground decrease dramatically. In other words, no steering. You'll only get it back when the speed is low enough. For drivers up here, that usually means hitting something solid :devil: You'll get the same effect if you turn too hard.

For plane with no traction on wheels, that would be "bambi on ice".

Found a nice youtube:

The SAS machine at the end seems to be in the high north, looks like Tromsø Airport (educated, but possibly incorrect, guess).

The chute applies a rather strong force rearwards to the aircraft, so the speed can be reduced without needing to risk that.

Even so, other forces may apply - like wind. Moar fun!
Offline
User avatar

lamoey

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1009
  • Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 17:44
  • Location: 77006

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 17:46

Now, two weeks shy of six years since I started this thread, I must admit that I was wrong. Norway do need, and indeed got, the drag chute. Here is a Norwegian F-35 at the welcoming ceremony today, proudly showing its drag chute mounted on the back of the aircraft.

Image below is a screen capture from http://www.nrk.no Krovik has a link to the video further down.
Attachments
RNoAF-F-35.png
RNoAF F-35 with drag chute mounted
Last edited by lamoey on 10 Nov 2017, 21:38, edited 1 time in total.
Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6964
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 18:49

Where is that pic from?
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:05

There's a video here, with the full ceremony:

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/id4/

Lamøys pic seems to be a screencap from there.

("Last ned videoen" is a download link for the full video).

Ørland AB shows off it's regular weather.... some more pics here:

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/de-nye-f-3 ... 1.13772553
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6964
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:22

Thanks, uploading to YT now.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 19:36

There's a good chance norwegian broadcaster NRK (nrk.no) will have something to say about that, but they did provide a download link, didn't they ;)
Offline
User avatar

lamoey

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1009
  • Joined: 25 Apr 2004, 17:44
  • Location: 77006

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 21:36

krorvik wrote:There's a video here, with the full ceremony:

https://www.regjeringen.no/no/id4/

Lamøys pic seems to be a screencap from there.

("Last ned videoen" is a download link for the full video).

Ørland AB shows off it's regular weather.... some more pics here:

https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/de-nye-f-3 ... 1.13772553


Yes, it's about 1hr 10 minutes into the video. I guess I should have credited them, but contrary to normal I wasn't blocked with foreign IP address.
Former Flight Control Technican - We keep'em flying
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 6964
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post10 Nov 2017, 22:21

The unavailing starts at 1:09:30

"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post11 Nov 2017, 08:09

Offline
User avatar

krorvik

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 517
  • Joined: 12 Sep 2015, 15:26

Unread post11 Nov 2017, 10:36

One of the pilots flying yesterday mentioned that he was surprised at the power he could get in the cold norwegian air, after flying @Luke.

"Defence Forum" in Norway reports that power levels from the F135 are expected to be up to *30%* higher in norway. I'm assuming this is at low level, and that it can best be exploited at low speeds.

Any comments on this from the engine people in here (30% is a significant number)?
Offline

kimjongnumbaun

Active Member

Active Member

  • Posts: 113
  • Joined: 08 Dec 2016, 21:41

Unread post11 Nov 2017, 11:54

krorvik wrote:One of the pilots flying yesterday mentioned that he was surprised at the power he could get in the cold norwegian air, after flying @Luke.

"Defence Forum" in Norway reports that power levels from the F135 are expected to be up to *30%* higher in norway. I'm assuming this is at low level, and that it can best be exploited at low speeds.

Any comments on this from the engine people in here (30% is a significant number)?


30% is huge. The difference is due to the ambient air temperature. Colder air makes the engine more efficient as it is denser so the compressor section doesn't need to work as hard. This is why aircraft engines become much more efficient at higher altitudes where the air is colder.
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 Design & Construction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests