F-35 orders for Greece, Romania, and Poland

[white_lightning35]

https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/05/01/t ... reek-lake/
It seems that at least some Greeks are quite confident in their F-35's.

Haluk Özdalga, a prominent Turkish journalist and former member of the Justice and Development Party (AKP) that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan belongs to, has made a scathing attack against the policies of his former political party.

As Turkey opted to purchase the Russian S-400 missile defence system despite being a NATO member, it was withdrawn from the U.S. F-35 fighter jet program that “were developed especially against Russia and China,” according to Özdalga in an article for Ahval.

The journalist says “Greece, which seeks opportunity, can take the air superiority, increase its territorial waters to 12 miles and turn it into the Aegean Greek lake.”

Just as a correction, Greece already has air superiority, proven by the fact Greek pilots have won in consecutive years NATO’s “Best Warrior” award, especially at a time when many in Turkey’s air force were jailed in the aftermath of the 2016 coup attempt against Erdoğan.

The Aegean Sea effectively already is a “Greek lake” because of Greece’s already existing air superiority and a navy that has never been defeated in battle since its modern formation in 1821.

Athens has not increased its territorial waters to 12 miles as permitted by international law only because Turkey has said this will be a casus belli for war. Greece as a responsible country is trying to avoid war at all costs, while Turkey seeks it constantly as its endless threats against Greece and failed invasions of Syria and Libya attest to.

Greece has bought a squadron of 24 fifth-generation F-35 planes that are a purely aggressive weapon with stealth capabilities, and is upgrading 84 fourth-generation F-16 Fighting Falcons and many of its Mirage 2000 fighter planes that are excellent for dogfights and have excellent maneuverability.

Özdalga says with Greece’s purchase of the F-35’s means “balances can be turned upside down in the Eastern Mediterranean and the Middle East, including Cyprus.”

Turkey was supposed to be a part of the F-35 manufacturing program and ordered 100 of the jets. However, Erdoğan’s insistence in also wanting the S-400 pushed Washington to suspend Turkey’s involvement.

Levent Özgül, a Turkish defence analyst for Blue Melange Consultancy, has also said Greece’s acquisition of the F-35s “will be the most important milestone and capability jump for Greece and the Hellenic Air Force.”

What is Turkey’s loss is now Greece’s gain.

Speaking to Greek City Times, a Greek military source said “the F-35 changes the game completely.”

“It gives any air force the ability to penetrate deep in enemy territory and take down radar and antiaircraft installations like the S-400. As the eastern Mediterranean is a large area, the F-35 advanced electronic suite, radar and sensors, in combination to its small radar control system, gives the F-35 air superiority against their adversaries,” the source said.

The source also revealed that the advantages of the F-35 is not so much its stealth technology, but the artificial intelligence.

“The artificial intelligence control system combined with advanced sensors gives the F-35 pilot nonparallel situational awareness. This situational awareness allows the pilot to see and coordinate enemy and friendly assets in a way never seen before in the battlefield. Target acquisition sharing and engagement enables the F-35 to see, plan and attack before its enemies even know it is there,” the source explained.

The source then revealed how the F-35’s and upgrades to the other fighter jets will be a “final blow to Ankara’s plan.”

“The other mission that the F-35 is designed to do well is deep penetration within surface to air missile (SAM) protected areas. The scenario is like this: an F-35 flies undetected deep inside enemy territory and disables the radars of the SAM sites. Thus opening a corridor for the F-16s, drones and others to enter through. Greece needs a maximum of 30 F-35s… even 10 would be enough for now, in combination with the F-16 Viper upgrade and it will be the final blow to Ankara’s plans – it renders them useless,” the source concluded.

[Corsair1963]

Which, is why Turkey will come around sooner or later.........

[mixelflick]

Which, is why Turkey will come around sooner or later.........

That horse has left the barn though. The S-400 was delivered and Turkey's troops are being/have been trained on how to use it. The cozy relationship with Putin/Russia has developed, and anyone in the US selling F-35's to them needs their head examined. They're not getting it..

Which means Turkey must now take steps to neutralize Greece's F-35's, and sooner or later they're going to learn S-400's aren't the answer. They'll either need to buy Russia's SU-35's or SU-57's, after which they'll again find out the Russian hardware isn't up to the task LOL.

Ergodan has really painted himself into a corner, but was the architect of his own demise. Putin can only keep him alive for so long. He will likely end up like another ruthless dictator, my boy Mo'mar Quadaffi...

[spazsinbad]

The F-35 Will Give Poland A More Advanced Air Force Than Some Major NATO Allies
24 Jun 2020 Dan Goure repeated by LM PR

"This past January, the Polish government took the bold step to acquire thirty-two F-35A Joint Strike Fighters (JSF). Poland is becoming a major player in NATO.... According to some observers, Poland’s decision to acquire the F-35 means that for the first time since the advent of airpower, that country will have a better air force than Germany or France....

...As a member of the F-35 club, Warsaw will establish a special relationship with other F-35 operators. In January, Poland joined the F-35 User’s Group [I did not know that was a thing] to share information, lessons learned and best practices as aircraft are acquired and fielded....

...If NATO is to successfully deter the growing threat from Russia, which today is deploying its own fifth-generation fighter, the only option is to invest in the F-35. By doing so, Poland has taken an important step towards enhancing its own security and that of the Alliance as a whole." [LONG ARTICLE only a few paragraphs here BEST READ at first URL]

Source: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... ies-163192 & https://www.f35.com/news/detail/the-f-3 ... or-nato-al

[XanderCrews]

The F-35 Will Give Poland A More Advanced Air Force Than Some Major NATO Allies
24 Jun 2020 Dan Goure repeated by LM PR

"This past January, the Polish government took the bold step to acquire thirty-two F-35A Joint Strike Fighters (JSF). Poland is becoming a major player in NATO.... According to some observers, Poland’s decision to acquire the F-35 means that for the first time since the advent of airpower, that country will have a better air force than Germany or France....

[mixelflick]

Poland has the second largest fleet of tanks in Europe but "strike fighters are too offensive". The general is either a paid piper for someone's lobby (more likely) or is retired for a reason.

I do think that Poland needs and should get the F-35. But they are probably somewhat sensitive to poking the big bear to their east.

On the contrary, ill will toward their former oppressors is still strong in many Poles. If fact, I bet plenty of Poles can't wait to stick it to Russia with this purchase, and further think that may have been a big(ger) factor in this purchase than many realize.

I spoke with someone who helped them integrate with NATO. He basically said they're incredibly hard working, proud people but many don't know what a day off is - because for most of their life, they haven't had one. Some in the new generation coming up may be different, but generally speaking - time off isn't in their culture. Life for generations was get up, go to work, come home, eat dinner, go to sleep and keep doing that over and over again - until you die.

Just take a look at some of the pictures; most carry very stoic expressions. A consequence of many living their lives hand to mouth under the Russians. Hopefully, their newfound freedom can help turn that around - but it's going to take more time IMO...




"

[spazsinbad]

Greece reportedly will take delivery of six F-35As meant for Turkey
28 Oct 2020 ALERT5

"New reports from Greece say that the United States has agreed to sell 20 F-35A fighters to Greece, six of them will be jets that were originally ordered by Turkey but not delivered. [how to rub it in eh]

Greek newspaper Estia said the order was discussed during Secretary of State Mike Pompeo’s visit to the country earlier this month.

Original source in GREEK Language though: https://www.estianews.gr/kentriko-thema ... iofylakes/

GOOGLE TRANSLATE: https://translate.google.com/translate? ... fylakes%2F

Source: http://alert5.com/2020/10/28/greece-rep ... more-85336

[ricnunes]

Greece reportedly will take delivery of six F-35As meant for Turkey
28 Oct 2020 ALERT5

WOW!
Is this official?

Anyway, great news for Greece and the F-35!

[luke_sandoz]

Greece reportedly will take delivery of six F-35As meant for Turkey
28 Oct 2020 ALERT5

WOW!
Is this official?

Anyway, great news for Greece and the F-35!

https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... urkey.html

Dumping Incirlik as a NATO airbase is long overdue.

[spazsinbad]

Just a repeat in text form [for easy searching] of de LUKE's post above.

Greece to take over F-35As initially intended for Turkey
28 Oct 2020 Air Recognition

"Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis said on 27 Oct. that Greece will take different measures regarding the defense of its national territory, air space and territorial waters. The purchase of 20 F-35A stealth fighters initially intended for the Turkish Air Force is part of the program....

...During U.S. State Secreary Mike Pompeo's recent visit, the supply of 20 Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II fighters was launched, 6 of which will be purchased on smart loan in 2012 [2021?] and together with the first 6 MBDA Rafale fighters will be the firepower of the Greek Air Force. The F-35As were initially intended for the Turkish Air Force, a program the U.S. scrapped...

...Moreover, the U.S are reportedly considering the possible transfer of its Turkish air base of Incirlik to Crete, the Greek newspaper Estia reports in its 28 Octobre edition. The issue is described as "early" but is already being formally discussed in the U.S. Senate. In a few days, the annual defense agreement between Greece and the USA will also expire. The Government will propose to the Parliament its five-year extension...."

[b]Source: https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... urkey.html

[mixelflick]

Greece reportedly will take delivery of six F-35As meant for Turkey
28 Oct 2020 ALERT5

WOW!
Is this official?

Anyway, great news for Greece and the F-35!

https://www.airrecognition.com/index.ph ... urkey.html

Dumping Incirlik as a NATO airbase is long overdue.

I wonder how Ergodan reacted when he saw this headline..

[spazsinbad]

Greek Media Outlets Claim Six F-35s Originally Destined to Turkey May End Up in Greece
28 Oct 2020 David Cenciotti

"Greek media outlets report that the U.S. will divert to Greece six F-35s originally built by Lockheed Martin for Turkey. Although the details are still pretty fuzzy, Greek social media went abuzz following the reports that Greece would receive, in 2022, six F-35s originally destined to Turkey that was kicked out of the program last year.

Greek Estia newspaper reported that U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo gave a virtual “green light” to the supply of TWENTY F-35s during his recent visit to Greece, and the deal “was discussed and agreed” according to Greek City Times. Noteworthy, as part of the deal, six jets will be purchased in 2022 and “will be delivered together with the first six Rafale fighter jets from France.”

Earlier this year, DefenseNews reported that the U.S. Air Force would officially buy eight F-35A conventional takeoff and landing jets originally built by Lockheed Martin for Turkey as part of a $862 million contract modification. “In the FY20 version of the National Defense Authorization Act, Congress gave the Pentagon permission to spend up to $30 million to fly the first six Turkish F-35s to a location where they could be stored and preserved until the department came up with a plan for their use,” Valerie Insinna reported. “Those jets, which were produced in Lots 10 and 11, are currently being held “in long-term storage in the United States pending final decision on their disposition,” the defense official said.”

Therefore, it’s not clear whether the Greek reports are accurate and the Hellenic Air Force is really getting those first jets or six among the 24 Turkish F-35s that were in various stages of production at the beginning of the year....

...we mentioned the Greek interest in a squadron of 24 F-35A 5th generation aircraft, “possibly from 2024 or at the end of the deliveries of the Rafale and the upgrade of the F-16”, when we reported about the acquisition of 18 Dassault Rafale fighter jets for the Hellenic Air Force in September. Now, it looks like the F-35 procurement has had an acceleration.

That being said, if confirmed, the procurement will be a Government to Government process and should take some time to complete. For this reason, the delivery of the jets next year claimed in the most recent media reports seems a bit optimistic. However, we’ll see."

Source: https://theaviationist.com/2020/10/28/g ... in-greece/

[spazsinbad]

Greece sent LOR to Pentagon for buying the F-35
17 Nov 2020 ALERT5

"Greek publication Proto Thema reports that Athens has sent a letter of request (LOR) to the U.S. Department of Defense to buy the F-35 fighter. [ https://www.protothema.gr/greece/articl ... o-tis-ipa/ IT IS ALL GREEK TO ME ]

The letter, signed by Director General of Armaments and Investments, Theodoros Lagios, seeks to buy between 18 to 24 new or used F-35s.

Greece is seeking delivery of aircraft from next year in order to meet its budgetary and deficit framework requirements.

Source: http://alert5.com/2020/11/17/greece-sen ... more-85584

[spazsinbad]

Greece Wants F-35s So Quickly It’s Willing to Accept Used Aircraft
19 Nov 2020 John A. Tirpak

"Greece has formally asked the U.S. to purchase 18-24 F-35s, and it wants them so quickly it’s willing to accept ex-USAF airplanes, according to Pentagon officials and Greek press reports.

The official Letter of Request was transmitted to the Pentagon by the Greek defense ministry on Nov. 6. The request asks for the “immediate” purchase of aircraft, such that the first ones could be delivered in 2021; the document said this timeline is “crucial.”

While it’s not clear why Greece views the timing of the purchase as so critical, industry officials said it likely has to do with European Union loan guarantees that will expire in the coming months. The financing is also viewed as the reason Greece may be willing to accept used, ex-Air Force F-35s. The LOR said the sale would be affected by the speed of delivery, configuration of the aircraft, and “the repayment plan.”

Greece has publicly indicated a desire to buy F-35s since early 2019, but ongoing fiscal problems prevented a formal request. The Greek defense ministry initially said it was contemplating the purchase of 25-30 F-35s.

A defense official, speaking on background, said the Air Force has “not identified any F-35s that are excess to need,” so it’s not certain that there are any aircraft that could be made available for sale to Greece secondhand. However, the Air Force has wrestled in recent years with whether it wants to spend the money to modify its oldest training F-35s up to the current production standard. Selling the older jets and replacing them with newer models might meet the Air Force’s needs. USAF has indicated, however, that it will use some older F-35s as Aggressor aircraft...."

Source: https://www.airforcemag.com/greece-want ... -aircraft/

[ricnunes]

Greece Wants F-35s So Quickly It’s Willing to Accept Used Aircraft
....

WOW, is it possible that these Greeks haven't read Mr. hocum's posts (from the F-35 Vs S-400 thread) that Stealth doesn't work and they (stealth aircraft, including the F-35) don't have a chance against Russian Air Defense systems??