India and the F-35?

marsavian · by **marsavian** » 19 Feb 2018, 02:27

India is nowhere near the Atlantic so it's never joining NATO. If it makes a deal with the US it would be bilateral like the one with Japan. India has had strong links with Russia as the US has had with Pakistan but things are changing. I doubt they would be interested in F-16s when Pakistan has them, they are currently being offered to take over the whole production line and are still lukewarm about it, purely because I believe they don't want to have similar aircraft to Pakistan otherwise they would already have gone for it.

No, if it can't get F-35 look for Gripen-E or MiG-35 to replace its lighter fighter bombers and in the longer term either a home grown stealth fighter or the new European one planned.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 19 Feb 2018, 02:35

Who knows> India didn't mind buying Flankers after it's arch rival China had ordered them. If India did acquire the F-16, it would be in a stronger position vis-a-vis Pakistan.

marsavian · by **marsavian** » 19 Feb 2018, 02:47

The Su-30 MKI is a more advanced TVC/canard Flanker than the Chinese ones at least until Su-35 arrives. There is no future F-16 variant planned that would be appreciably better than the Pakistan ones or that they couldn't upgrade to. F-35 is their first choice especially to counter Chinese stealth planes. If not I think Gripen-E with maybe a GaN AESA upgrade looks the most promising alternative followed by TVC MiG-35. The latter is definitely the cheapest option.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 19 Feb 2018, 03:49

marsavian wrote:The Su-30 MKI is a more advanced TVC/canard Flanker than the Chinese ones at least until Su-35 arrives. There is no future F-16 variant planned that would be appreciably better than the Pakistan ones or that they couldn't upgrade to. F-35 is their first choice especially to counter Chinese stealth planes. If not I think Gripen-E with maybe a GaN AESA upgrade looks the most promising alternative followed by TVC MiG-35. The latter is definitely the cheapest option.

LM would disagree with you about the latest F-16 variant superiority vs. what Pakistan flies.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 19 Feb 2018, 03:54

The only thing that the F-16V does not have is an IRST (other than Sniper Pod functions).

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/ ... y_2017.pdf

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 19 Feb 2018, 04:09

Legion pod.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 19 Feb 2018, 04:14

That's always an option. I was speaking of stock items.

weasel1962 · by **weasel1962** » 19 Feb 2018, 04:35

Just wanted to highlight also that the Pakistani F-16s are not AESA-equipped. The Indian Su-30MKI is also fairly outdated (no AESA either), unlike some of the latest Chinese flanker iterations. Even the proposed Zhuk-AE is a 2007 AESA.

nutshell · by **nutshell** » 19 Feb 2018, 08:43

I seriously doubt the "Atlantic" part is a literal requirement.

You know east europa Turkey and stuff.

cryptex1 · by **cryptex1** » 19 Feb 2018, 21:40

weasel1962 wrote:Just wanted to highlight also that the Pakistani F-16s are not AESA-equipped. The Indian Su-30MKI is also fairly outdated (no AESA either), unlike some of the latest Chinese flanker iterations. Even the proposed Zhuk-AE is a 2007 AESA.

: qnwkuo.jpg (48.88 KiB) Viewed 17257 times

I think the outdated radar problem is being addressed as we speak of for the Su-30MKI in regards to those 2 images. I cant tell if the Indians are too cheap or focusing on quantity over quality. I believe one of their complaints about the T-50 was that it was expensive along with faulty issues and now I am seeing rumors about a 5th gen su-35 or (super sukhoi)

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2015/10 ... n.html..... I am under the impression they are looking for cheap aircraft which is why it is highly unlikely for me to see a SU-57 or F-35 deal anytime soon.

sunstersun · by **sunstersun** » 22 Feb 2018, 19:19

https://twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/sta ... 0267873280

new tender for aircraft.

single twin don't matter.

hythelday · by **hythelday** » 23 Feb 2018, 01:12

From the source article:

These will be under ‘make in India’ and to get global manufactures to have a production line in India

This immediately excludes F-35 and makes F-16 the strongest contender.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 23 Feb 2018, 01:25

sunstersun wrote:https://twitter.com/IndianDefenceRA/status/966515490267873280

new tender for aircraft.

single twin don't matter.

Another day, another tender. :roll:

marsavian · by **marsavian** » 23 Feb 2018, 01:50

hythelday wrote:From the source article:

These will be under ‘make in India’ and to get global manufactures to have a production line in India

This immediately excludes F-35 and makes F-16 the strongest contender.

Saab are offering the same thing via local partner Adani group. This should be a straight shoot out between the two and India is quite thorough in its evaluations so the future leaked report should make interesting reading. Dassault was not impressed at the time with their Rafale industrial partner who make the Su-30MKI which was why India will only get French built Rafales.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/s ... 601033.ece
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 840745.ece

hythelday · by **hythelday** » 23 Feb 2018, 02:10

marsavian wrote:Saab are offering the same thing via local partner Adani group. This should be a straight shoot out between the two

I'll take the freedom to say that hundreds of jets is too lucrative of a deal for US to not support their own LM in a competition against SAAB. Gripen E has too many US parts in it to freely compete. After all, we've all heard about evil american imperialist lobby in "F-35 vs Gripen" thread...

Besides, consider the following: 1) LM has already manufactured F-16s abroad (this would have been much more substantial argument if only Indians weren't Indians), SAAB has not 2) LM will be much more willing to part with F-16 production line since they have the next big thing, SAAB doesn't; so unless Swedish Royal Air Force wants to fly Indian-made Gripen Es (they don't) their offer won't be able to beat LM's.