India and the F-35?

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Corsair1963

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Unread post25 Apr 2019, 10:45

zerion wrote:
BAE Systems proposes its aircraft carrier design to Indian Navy

Writing in Australian Defense Magazine published on April 4, Nigel Pittaway quoted a representative of BAE Systems as saying the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier design was being offered to India. The HMS Queen Elizabeth is in service with the Royal Navy and is said to be the most powerful aircraft carrier after the US Navy's nuclear-powered carriers, the Indian newspaper The Week comments...

http://www.navyrecognition.com/index.ph ... -navy.html



Many don't take the QEC as a serious option for the Indian Navy. Yet, I am not so sure as the cost to design and develop a large aircraft carrier can't be understated. Plus, considering the problems India is already having with the New Vikrant currently under construction. Combined with a vastly expanding PLAN.

India would be crazy at least not to give it serious consideration. :wink:

It's also worth noting that the Indian Navy has expressed interest in the F-35C. Which, would be a very good fit for a EMALS/AAG equipped QEC. That would allow India to close the gap with China....(capability wise at least)
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marsavian

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Unread post25 Apr 2019, 20:15

The Indians will not be allowed F-35C due to S-400 purchase so most likely future carrier aircraft are Russian or Rafale M or even SCAF/NGF.
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Unread post09 Jun 2019, 01:35

US may offer F-35 fighter if India scraps S-400 deal

The US has been increasing pressure on India over the S-400 deal that was signed in October last year.

By Manu Pubby

Updated: Jun 08, 2019

NEW DELHI: The US could offer the fifth-generation F-35 fighter jet for both the air force and navy, if the $5.43-billion deal with Russia for the S-400 air defense system is dropped.

The US has been increasing pressure on India over the S-400 deal that was signed in October last year, with senior Washington officials saying it would have a direct impact on any high technology cooperation in the future.

India is keeping a close watch on what happens with Turkey, a NATO ally, that has already signed up for the S-400 and has been threatened by the US with sanctions and the cancellation of its contract for F-35s.

ET has learnt that senior industry leaders as well as officials from the US are visiting India, even as the deadline for action against Turkey is closing in. The defense ministry, meanwhile, is expected to shortly move ahead on the acquisition of 110 fighter jets for the air force under a strategic partnership program. The navy is also preparing technical requirements for its upcoming purchase of 57 combat aircraft.

While no official request has been received from India and the F-35 has not been formally put on offer by the US, the aircraft could be pitched as the only air platform that will be equipped and upgraded to beat the S-400 air defense systems that have also been acquired by China.


Like Turkey, India has stood strong on its purchase of the S-400 but it is learnt that only partial payments have been made by New Delhi, given banking sanctions that are already in place for dealing with Russian defense entities. More stringent CAATSA (Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act) sanctions have also been threatened against nations purchasing the S-400 from Russia..................


https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 698536.cms
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 03:07

IF the Shornet JUMPS GOOD then likely NO F-35 for INDIA but do I know? NO. Anyhoo awaiting developments iz I. :doh:

OOPS - just noticed - is SAAB in the porkie selling business again - have they said the GRIPPING GRIPE N is flat deckable?
Boeing plans trials of its Super Hornet jets on ski-jump ramp to meet Indian requirements
06 Feb 2020 Snehesh Alex Philip

"Top Boeing official Thom Breckenridge said the aircraft will fulfill the Indian requirements and that they are in discussion with the Indian Navy for the trials.

Lucknow: US Defence major Boeing is planning trials of its F/A-18 Block III Super Hornet aircraft on ski-jump ramp to prove its ability as the company eyes the multi billion-dollar deal of the Indian Navy for 57 fighter jets.

“Testing plans are underway. We will rigorously check our aircraft on ski jump,” said Thom Breckenridge, Vice-President, International Sales (Strike, Surveillance and Mobility) at Boeing Defence, Space and Security, at the DefExpo 2020, which is being held in Lucknow. Refusing to get into any specific timeline, Breckenridge said that the aircraft will fulfill the Indian requirements and they are in discussion with the Indian Navy for the trials....

...Breckenridge said the aircraft would be able to land with the arrestor wire used by India and there is no need for any new type....

...The idea is to have another type of fighters for its first indigenous aircraft carrier, which is under construction in Cochin, and also for the second indigenous aircraft carrier, which is still in the planning stage. Currently, six planes are compatible for aircraft carrier flying — Rafale (Dassault, France), F/A-18 (Boeing, US), MIG-29K (Russia), F-35B, F-35C (Lockheed Martin, US) and Gripen (Saab, Sweden). [wait wut Gripen? Hoo let the porkies out?]

One of the foreign fighters, which will finally be chosen, along with the indigenous twin-engine deck-based fighter (TEDBF) aircraft will become the mainstay of the Navy for the next 30-40 years, a Navy officer said...."
[TEDBF TEDtalk [TEJAS N has bin arrested already]: https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/if-deve ... ts-2159016 ]

1st TEJAS N carrier arrest 11 Jan 2020: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/01 ... -deck.html

[Better [not good English tho] TEDBF info: https://idrw.org/how-tedbf-program-unfo ... y-and-ada/ ]

Source: https://theprint.in/defence/boeing-plan ... ts/360878/
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 05:54

To SAAB: "GET IT ON - BANG A GONG - GET IT ON' (an old song goes like that) where's DA GRIPPING CARRIER CAPABLE?
India Prepares For New Fighter Tender
06 Feb 2020 Reuben F. Johnson

"...Needed: A Shorter Acquisition Cycle
What makes this impending competition all the more critical for India’s future defense posture is that the next-generation of aircraft carriers that will be coming online with the Indian Navy that will require a force of CATOBAR (catapult-assisted take-off barrier-arrested recovery) fighter aircraft. Both the Rafale-M and Boeing’s Super Hornet are available for this mission and Saab has a design for a carrier-capable Maritime Gripen variant of the JAS-39E on the shelf that can be realized within a short time frame. [OH YEAH]

What remains to be seen is whether or not a new tender can be carried out without making it a repeat of the arduous seven-year process that the original M-MRCA turned out to be. Suggestions had been made last year that a new tender could be carried out without an extensive set of flight trials to shorten the evaluation and down-select cycles.

While there is no agreement on which aircraft type or types fit the requirements of both the IAF and the Indian Navy, there are numerous observers both inside and outside of India who disparage the manner in which the selection of a new fighter type has been carried out.

“As it stands now, the methodology for buying a new fighter is an objectively dysfunctional process,” said one Indian aerospace expert. “The problem is that it will never change as long as the OEMs keep rewarding those who propagate that process without demanding that it change.”

Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... ter-tender
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lbk000

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Unread post07 Feb 2020, 18:09

Apparently, India is already thinking about making its own Gripen -- the Tejas must go on.
Forget the F-35, it's Gripens all the way down.
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HAL render -- don't ask me why they think CFTs are better than designing a better OML
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madrat

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Unread post08 Feb 2020, 00:49

That pic is a twin engine, so more like a Tejas-Rafale crossover.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post10 Feb 2020, 07:02

I doubt the LCA MK II or MWF will ever be developed. Let alone any twin engine based version...... :?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post10 Feb 2020, 07:13

Corsair1963 wrote:I doubt the LCA MK II or MWF will ever be developed. Let alone any twin engine based version...... :?

Already a twin engine Indian new design TEDBF is being looked at - where it goes - no one knows: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=53865&p=434397&hilit=Tejas#p434397
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Corsair1963

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Unread post10 Feb 2020, 07:33

spazsinbad wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I doubt the LCA MK II or MWF will ever be developed. Let alone any twin engine based version...... :?

Already a twin engine Indian new design TEDBF is being looked at - where it goes - no one knows: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=53865&p=434397&hilit=Tejas#p434397



India can't seem to find the money to buy the planned 83 LCA MK IA's. Nor, fund development of the MK II. (MWF?) So, don't see them developing what would be a totally new 4.5 Generation Design. Which, would take them another 20 years....
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Unread post10 Feb 2020, 07:34

lbk000 wrote:Apparently, India is already thinking about making its own Gripen -- the Tejas must go on.
Forget the F-35, it's Gripens all the way down.



Honestly, nothing but a "concept".......
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Unread post12 Feb 2020, 15:54

Super Hornet to undergo ski-jump launches
12 Feb 2020 Greg Waldron

"...“The [ski-jump] testing is going to take place sometime in the first quarter at [NAS] Patuxent River,” says Shockey....

...the Indian Navy has elected to proceed with an ambitious all-new twin-engined carrier-based fighter, abandoning its proposed Hindustan Aeronautics LCA Navy MkII."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/singapore- ... 00.article
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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 12:35

Must be a repost but I'll repost it anyways - dis is de HORNET:
“The McDonnell F-/A-18A first flew from a ski jump on 26 Sep 1983. It flew 91 ski jump tests at ramp angles of 6- and 9-degrees and achieved takeoff distance reductions of 66%.” http://defesa.forums-free.com/tejas-ind ... 64s50.html

JPG: http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/al_datr/ ... iginal.jpg
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steve2267

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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 15:38

Invincible-class had 12° ramp exit angles, and HMS QE & POW have 12.5° ramps, have the Indians specified a ramp angle yet?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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Unread post13 Feb 2020, 20:35

The ramp at Pax River angle can be adjusted IIRC. However these days data can be massaged by computer if angle is diff.

From 1952 a PDF about catyapult to a curved ramp for some reason specified in the PDF I guess:

AN ANALYSIS OF THE EFFECT OF A CURVED RAMP ON THE TAKE-OFF PERFORMANCE OF CATAPULT-LAUNCHED AIRPLANES
05 Nov 1952 Wilmer H. Reed, NACA

"Summary
Some of the newer airplanee designed for carrier operations have high wing loads and wing plan forms with low lift-curve slopes. These configurations may require special catapulting equipment or techniques to prevent an excessive loss of height when catapulted from the deck at a low attitude angle. [nose raised by raising nose gear for catapulting - UK F-4K] A curved ramp installed on the deck forward of the catapult release point is considered as a possible solution to this problem. Its function would be to impart an initial upward vertical velocity to provide more time for the controls to pitch the airplane to the required angle of attack before settling could occur and also to impart an initial nose-up pitching velocity so that the development of lift would be more rapid.

An analysis of take-off performance is made by considering a ramp of circular-arc profile 50 feet long with a total rise of 1.73 feet. The assumption that the landing gear is rigid is used throughout the analysis. A straight-wing conventional fighter jet airplane and a low-aspect-ratio delta-wing airplane are used to illustrate the effect of the ramp. Results of flight-path computations are presented for launchings from a straight deck and the curved ramp under conditions of insufficient lift at the instant of take-off. For the case of the straight-deck launchings, the airplanes considered settled from 6 to 9 feet below deck level, whereas for similar launching from the curved ramp there was no tendency to lose altitude."

Source: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi ... 087290.pdf (0.9Mb)
Last edited by spazsinbad on 13 Feb 2020, 21:10, edited 3 times in total.
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