India and the F-35?

Program progress, politics, orders, and speculation
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:28

Corsair1963 wrote:We know little about the J-20 and even less about the J-31. So, what open sources are you talking about??? :roll:


oh...
Ok, the J-31 is an export airplane. Its mockup, equipment and some characteristics were presented at the China Airshow, since 2016. Its chief designer gave several interviews for the Chinese press, and participated in several TV programs dedicated to this machine. So I think there is a lot of information about it in open sources..

Also from his interview, we have some information about j-20. For example, that RCS j-20 is higher than RCS j-31.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:32

babybat{}.net wrote:
oh...
Ok, the J-31 is an export airplane. Its mockup, equipment and some characteristics were presented at the China Airshow, since 2016. Its chief designer gave several interviews for the Chinese press, and participated in several TV programs dedicated to this machine. So I think there is a lot of information about it in open sources..


You think or you know???
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:38

Corsair1963 wrote:You think or you know???
Attachments
0.jpg
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:50

Your hardly making your case......... :|
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 08:56

Corsair1963 wrote:Your hardly making your case......... :|


Sorry, but I did not hear from you anything about j-31. If you don't know anything about this plane - it does not mean that no one knows. first try google
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 09:27

babybat{}.net wrote:
Sorry, but I did not hear from you anything about j-31. If you don't know anything about this plane - it does not mean that no one knows. first try google.



I think your on the wrong forum.......... :|
Offline

milosh

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1154
  • Joined: 27 Feb 2008, 23:40
  • Location: Serbia, Belgrade

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 09:28

Corsair1963 wrote:
babybat{}.net wrote:
The only advantage of the j-31 is a reduced RCS, in all other respects, the super-30 will surpasses it.



Stealth is a very big advantage. Plus, what proof do you have that the Su-30MKI's will surpass it in other areas???


For start engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF5nB4UIOc8

Russians will not gave them RD-33MK tech which is only decent RD-33 variant but it is still under powered for what J-31 need. So until China developed its own F414, J-31 is more less irrelevant.

On other hand old AL-31 is lot better then what J-31 use, and Russian Flankers right now are getting 117 engines, and after 2022 we can expect type-30 for Flankers.
Offline

eloise

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1883
  • Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 16:05

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 09:31

babybat{}.net wrote:Of course, but in this case, the new radar will provide sufficient detection range.

That is quite unlikely
burn-through.png

https://books.google.com.vn/books?id=3l ... &q&f=false
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 09:55

eloise wrote:That is quite unlikely


Okay, let's count.
For export version of Irbis-E for example:

Dmax = 400/((3/0.05)^(1/4)) > 140km

If I made a mistake in my calculations, I would be happy to hear your comments.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 09:56

milosh wrote:
For start engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF5nB4UIOc8

Russians will not gave them RD-33MK tech which is only decent RD-33 variant but it is still under powered for what J-31 need. So until China developed its own F414, J-31 is more less irrelevant.

On other hand old AL-31 is lot better then what J-31 use, and Russian Flankers right now are getting 117 engines, and after 2022 we can expect type-30 for Flankers.


Stealth and Sensor Fusion are the most important qualities in any 5th Generation Stealth Fighter. So, any Flanker is at a big deficit from the very start. Nonetheless, in the case of China. Russia has been more than willing to provide China with just about anything it wants. Assuming it would need more engines from Russia in the first place. As it is making good progress along that front.

In addition the izdeliye 30 is very early in it's development and I believe only flown once in a Su-57. So, I wouldn't count those chickens until the hatch.
:wink:

Honestly, to claim any Flanker is likely superior to a Stealth Fighter even the J-20 and/or J-31 is nothing short of naïve.... :?
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2432
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 10:00

babybat{}.net wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Your hardly making your case......... :|


Sorry, but I did not hear from you anything about j-31. If you don't know anything about this plane - it does not mean that no one knows. first try google


What some people still don't understand is the difference between an aircraft developed for export and one developed for internal military use. The former would always have brochures since one can't sell aircraft without at least some advertising...

Example of an J-31 brochure
http://www.eastpendulum.com/wp-content/ ... %A9-08.jpg

As for Su-30, browse thru roe.ru (official rosboronexport brochure) - disclaimer on worms at your risk.

What is commonly reported incorrectly is the J-31 take off weight of 17.5 tons is read as empty. Should not need to go into such detail as anyone with a common knowledge of Russian engine thrust differences for the differing engines would have acknowledged that what was stated wrt flight performance is generally accurate.
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 10:04

weasel1962 wrote:Example of an J-31 brochure
http://www.eastpendulum.com/wp-content/ ... %A9-08.jpg


Thank you! I have not seen the full version of this brochure yet.
Offline

weasel1962

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2432
  • Joined: 07 Jun 2012, 02:41
  • Location: Singapore

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 10:11

eloise wrote:
babybat{}.net wrote:Of course, but in this case, the new radar will provide sufficient detection range.

That is quite unlikely


Not conclusive since the actual RCS of the J-31 is not known. Whilst the J-31 has stealth characteristics, the assumption that the aircraft has comparable stealth RCS as an aircraft like the F-35, cannot be validated.

Even in the context of RCS reduction paint, the PLAAF might apply the best for the J-20 but may not do the same for an export variant.

If one considers the power output of a radar like Irbis e.g. 20kw, the raw output could ensure detection of LO aircraft (not VLO) at adequate missile firing ranges.
Offline

Corsair1963

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6937
  • Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 04:14

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 10:13

Honestly, some general specifications tell us very little. Just like they did early in the development of the F-35. :shock:
Offline

babybat{}.net

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 89
  • Joined: 08 Sep 2017, 19:16

Unread post02 Oct 2018, 10:16

weasel1962 wrote:Not conclusive since the actual RCS of the J-31 is not known. Whilst the J-31 has stealth characteristics, the assumption that the aircraft has comparable stealth RCS as an aircraft like the F-35, cannot be validated.


There is data from the TV show with the participation of the chief designer of J-31. j-31 RCS = 0.05m^2

weasel1962 wrote:Even in the context of RCS reduction paint, the PLAAF might apply the best for the J-20 but may not do the same for an export variant.


In an interview with a Chinese newspaper, he claims that RCS j-31 is lower than RCS j-20.
Attachments
j-31 rcs.jpg
PreviousNext

Return to Program and politics

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests