The Turkey problem

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Corsair1963

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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 04:12

marsavian wrote:Just like they weren't going to buy the S-400 ? Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee, if F-35 is denied to them as it is they will go Russian for future aircraft to coordinate better with their new S-400 as well as develop their own. Turkey is still technically a NATO member but in reality they are friendlier to Russia than to the US these days.



So, you think Turkey wants a total break with the US and NATO??? While, joining with Russia as a Partner???
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Corsair1963

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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 06:18

marsavian wrote:Just like they weren't going to buy the S-400 ? Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee, if F-35 is denied to them as it is they will go Russian for future aircraft to coordinate better with their new S-400 as well as develop their own. Turkey is still technically a NATO member but in reality they are friendlier to Russia than to the US these days.



QUOTE:

Defense minister says Turkey, U.S. to overcome F-35 problem
Ece Toksabay, Orhan Coskun

October 23, 2019

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey expects that disagreements with the United States over production of F-35 jets will be overcome, its defense minister told Reuters, adding that Ankara remained at the center of NATO despite criticism from allies of its incursion into Syria.

Washington began removing Ankara from a joint F-35 production program after Turkey bought and took delivery in July of Russian S-400 missile defense systems.

The United States says the system is not compatible with North Atlantic Treaty Organization defenses, and pose a threat to Lockheed Martin Corp’s F-35 stealth fighters.

Turkey, which also wanted to buy the jets, has since said it could look elsewhere.

“We hope that we will continue producing them. There are some issues right now, but I believe these issues will be overcome,” Defense Minister Hulusi Akar said in an interview on Wednesday.

“We are partners in the production of F-35s, and we have been investing in the project for years, around $1.5 billion... producing some of its parts in Turkey,” he added.

Turkey’s incursion this month into northeastern Syria has further strained ties between the two NATO allies, even though President Donald Trump paved the way for it by pulling U.S. troops out of the region.

Last week, Washington sanctioned some Turkish ministries and ministers over the attacks on the Kurdish YPG militia, which were U.S. allies in a years-long fight against Islamic State in Syria. On Wednesday Trump said the sanctions would be lifted after Ankara said it was making a ceasefire in Syria permanent.

Akar rejected criticism that Turkey was drifting away from its Western allies.

“We are at the center of NATO, and we remain determined to carry out all of our responsibilities fully. We are going nowhere,” he said.

Akar added that Turkey had caught around 200 Islamic State militants in northern Syria during its operations into the area.

“In various ways, we have captured 200 ISIS members,” he said. “We are preserving them in the appropriate ways in the appropriate places.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN1X220L
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hornetfinn

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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 08:59

Ok, they could solve this whole issue by selling the S-400 to USA. Then they could easily be brought back to F-35 program and USA would get a good look at the most advanced Russian SAM system. I'm sure Putin would not like that... :mrgreen:
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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 11:01

hornetfinn wrote:Ok, they could solve this whole issue by selling the S-400 to USA. Then they could easily be brought back to F-35 program and USA would get a good look at the most advanced Russian SAM system. I'm sure Putin would not like that... :mrgreen:


Best wait until they get an Su35 delivery.
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marsavian

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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 13:23

Corsair1963 wrote:
marsavian wrote:Just like they weren't going to buy the S-400 ? Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee, if F-35 is denied to them as it is they will go Russian for future aircraft to coordinate better with their new S-400 as well as develop their own. Turkey is still technically a NATO member but in reality they are friendlier to Russia than to the US these days.


So, you think Turkey wants a total break with the US and NATO??? While, joining with Russia as a Partner???


Turkey has no love for the US/NATO but will stay in for pragmatic reasons as Article 5 is good insurance for them. However the autocratic Erdogan mixes easier with the autocratic Putin and the Turkish/Russian militaries are now jointly patrolling Erdogan's safe zone when it was originally the US and Turkey meant to do that. I fully expect Su-35 and then Su-57 to be bought by Turkey while it remains a tenuous member of NATO in name only.
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Unread post28 Oct 2019, 20:28

Turkey, Russia in negotiations for potential Su-35 jet deal
28 Oct 2019 Burak Ege Bekdil

"ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish and Russian government officials are in an “advanced stage of negotiations” to finalize a potential deal on Russian-made Su-35 fighter aircraft, Turkish officials said. “The talks have quite matured,” a senior Turkish procurement official told Defense News on the condition of anonymity. “A deal does not appear to be too distant.”

If penned, an Su-35 deal will be Turkey’s second major purchase of weapons systems from Russia. Unnerving its NATO alliesm Turkey acquired the Russian-made S-400 long-range air defense system. The S-400s were delivered to the Turkish military in August. The Turkish official said that although the final numbers may change during the negotiating process, Turkey could buy two squadrons (a batch of 48) Su-35s.

An aerospace industry specialist in Ankara said Moscow would probably price the fighter aircraft between $50 million and $70 million. “The potential Su-35 deal has strategic value for the Russians,” he said. “Moscow may thus agree to give Ankara a favorable price reminiscent of the S-400 deal,” he added. Turkey agreed to pay $2.5 billion for two S-400 systems. The contract came with an international loan...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10 ... -jet-deal/
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Corsair1963

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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 01:08

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
marsavian wrote:Just like they weren't going to buy the S-400 ? Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee, if F-35 is denied to them as it is they will go Russian for future aircraft to coordinate better with their new S-400 as well as develop their own. Turkey is still technically a NATO member but in reality they are friendlier to Russia than to the US these days.


So, you think Turkey wants a total break with the US and NATO??? While, joining with Russia as a Partner???


Turkey has no love for the US/NATO but will stay in for pragmatic reasons as Article 5 is good insurance for them. However the autocratic Erdogan mixes easier with the autocratic Putin and the Turkish/Russian militaries are now jointly patrolling Erdogan's safe zone when it was originally the US and Turkey meant to do that. I fully expect Su-35 and then Su-57 to be bought by Turkey while it remains a tenuous member of NATO in name only.



Buying the Su-35 from Russia would likely be "the straw that broke the camel's back" for the US and Europe (NATO). As both are still "fuming" over the S-400 deal. Let alone the Su-57.... :shock:

As I have said many times over. A split between Turkey and the West would be nothing short of disastrous for Turkey. Which, heavily relies on the West for their Defense Industry.

For example what about the Anadolu (L-408) Amphibious Assault Ship (LHD). Which, is full of western equipment (8000 KW Man Diesel Generators, 11 MW Siemens SiPOD, KW Bow Thruster, SMART-S Mk2, etc. etc. etc.) Plus, this doesn't even count the F-35B's, LCAC's, or Seahawk ASW Helicopters that would operate from their decks!

How about the TFX Stealth Fighter currently is development. Which, would use everything from Western Avionics to ENGINES!

...and let's see the

AgustaWestland T129 (LHTEC T800, GE M197 20mm Cannon, etc.)

...and F-16's, Leopard MK 2 MBT's, etc. etc. etc.

Now how about "trade"??? In 2017, Turkey major trading partner countries for exports were Germany, United Kingdom, United Arab Emirates, Iraq and United States and for imports they were China, Germany, Russian Federation, United States and Italy.

If, you think the US and Europe will allow Turkey to start buying Su-35's and Su-57's and remain a member of NATO. Then you need to cut back on the "Medication". As you must be on drugs...

In short Turkey splitting with the West would be like putting a gun to their head and pulling the trigger! :shock:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 01:11

spazsinbad wrote:
Turkey, Russia in negotiations for potential Su-35 jet deal
28 Oct 2019 Burak Ege Bekdil

"ANKARA, Turkey — Turkish and Russian government officials are in an “advanced stage of negotiations” to finalize a potential deal on Russian-made Su-35 fighter aircraft, Turkish officials said. “The talks have quite matured,” a senior Turkish procurement official told Defense News on the condition of anonymity. “A deal does not appear to be too distant.”

If penned, an Su-35 deal will be Turkey’s second major purchase of weapons systems from Russia. Unnerving its NATO alliesm Turkey acquired the Russian-made S-400 long-range air defense system. The S-400s were delivered to the Turkish military in August. The Turkish official said that although the final numbers may change during the negotiating process, Turkey could buy two squadrons (a batch of 48) Su-35s.

An aerospace industry specialist in Ankara said Moscow would probably price the fighter aircraft between $50 million and $70 million. “The potential Su-35 deal has strategic value for the Russians,” he said. “Moscow may thus agree to give Ankara a favorable price reminiscent of the S-400 deal,” he added. Turkey agreed to pay $2.5 billion for two S-400 systems. The contract came with an international loan...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2019/10 ... -jet-deal/



Yet, what about the comments from Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Oct 23rd. Which, said they would work out a deal to stay in the F-35 Program. Which, clearly wouldn't happen if Turkey keeps the S-400 let alone acquires the Su-35.
Last edited by Corsair1963 on 29 Oct 2019, 01:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 01:20

Ego Dan is 'humpty-dumpty' straddling a fence. When he falls 'humpty' can't be put back together again. Don't cry for him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty CRY FOR TURKEY if you will.
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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 07:30

Interesting question. If the USA attacks Turkey due to the current situation, can Turkey invoke the Article 5 of the NATO treaty against the USA?
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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 08:32

Corsair1963 wrote:Yet, what about the comments from Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Oct 23rd. Which, said they would work out a deal to stay in the F-35 Program. Which, clearly wouldn't happen if Turkey keeps the S-400 let alone acquires the Su-35.


So even after all the crap Erdogan pulled with invasion of Kurdish areas and increasing ties with Russia, you STILL want to sell F-35s to Turkey.

You think Turkey will now magically just return their S-400s? At this point even if Turkey reverse S-400 buy and now wants the F-35 I hope we don’t sell to them.
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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 09:06

disconnectedradical wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Yet, what about the comments from Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Oct 23rd. Which, said they would work out a deal to stay in the F-35 Program. Which, clearly wouldn't happen if Turkey keeps the S-400 let alone acquires the Su-35.


So even after all the crap Erdogan pulled with invasion of Kurdish areas and increasing ties with Russia, you STILL want to sell F-35s to Turkey.

You think Turkey will now magically just return their S-400s? At this point even if Turkey reverse S-400 buy and now wants the F-35 I hope we don’t sell to them.



First, never said I personally wanted Turkey to acquire the F-35. Just stating they likely would....Second, the Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Oct 23rd. Stated they would work out a deal. His words not mine.

As for he S-400 if they want the F-35. They will in fact have to get rid of them....(how is the only question?)
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Unread post29 Oct 2019, 13:26

old_rn wrote:Interesting question. If the USA attacks Turkey due to the current situation, can Turkey invoke the Article 5 of the NATO treaty against the USA?

Short answer, no. Long answer, sort of. They would go through political charades knowing full well they are being dishonest and will lack support. Unfortunately most of the Belt & Road politics being pushed into Europe seem to be strictly targeted to lay a landmine for such an event.
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Unread post30 Oct 2019, 19:07

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... ister.html

"Turkey Will Not Buy Russian Su-35 Fighter Jets, Says Defense Minister
(Source: TASS; published Oct. 29, 2019)
ANKARA --- Turkey’s National Defense Minister Hulusi Akar on Tuesday refuted media reports about Ankara’s plans to buy Russian Su-35 fighter jets.

"Reports that Turkey will buy Su-35 fighter jets are not true. We are partners on the F-35 project [US fifth-generation fighter jets]. We want our rights to be granted," the Haberler news portal quoted him as saying."

Good luck with getting back into the F-35 program, don't think its going to happen.
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Unread post31 Oct 2019, 02:31

marsavian wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:
marsavian wrote:Just like they weren't going to buy the S-400 ? Wake up and smell the Turkish coffee, if F-35 is denied to them as it is they will go Russian for future aircraft to coordinate better with their new S-400 as well as develop their own. Turkey is still technically a NATO member but in reality they are friendlier to Russia than to the US these days.


So, you think Turkey wants a total break with the US and NATO??? While, joining with Russia as a Partner???


Turkey has no love for the US/NATO but will stay in for pragmatic reasons as Article 5 is good insurance for them. However the autocratic Erdogan mixes easier with the autocratic Putin and the Turkish/Russian militaries are now jointly patrolling Erdogan's safe zone when it was originally the US and Turkey meant to do that. I fully expect Su-35 and then Su-57 to be bought by Turkey while it remains a tenuous member of NATO in name only.



QUOTE: Turkey has no plans to buy Su-35 fighter jets from Russia, the country's Defense Minister, Hulusi Akar has stated. Akar called "false" that reports claiming Turkey would soon receive the Su-35s, Deutsche Welle wrote with reference to Turkey's Haberler. The top defense official says Turkey remains a U.S. partner on F-35 development and hopes its rights will be respected. Information that the Turkish authorities were considering buying Russian Su-35 fighter jets earlier appeared in some local media.

https://www.unian.info/world/10736415-t ... -jets.html
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