The Turkey problem

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loke

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Unread post24 May 2019, 22:50

The SASC FY 2020 defence bill bans F-35 transfers to Turkey if the nation moves forward with acquiring the Russian S-400 system
This is the first step in a process that, if approved by the president, could formally ban sending F-35s to Turkey
The US fiscal year 2020 (FY 2020) defence authorisation bill approved by the Senate Armed Services Committee (SASC) on 23 May bans Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) transfers to Turkey if it proceeds with acquiring the Russian S-400 air and missile defence system.
This provision also applies to equipment intellectual property (IP), technical data necessary for the maintenance and support of the F-35, and for the construction of facilities in Turkey to store the aircraft.


https://www.janes.com/article/88770/us- ... -to-turkey
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Unread post26 May 2019, 05:06

USN may get giggles out of this USAF F-86E Flight Handbook cartoon about olde schoole IFF destroy advice at NAS Podunk:

https://ln.sync.com/dl/a6b3934d0/75j45x ... 5906210010 (PDF 63 Mb)
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F-86E Sabre IFF Destruct Cartoon.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post26 May 2019, 12:02

Turkey chops F35s. What now?
26 May 2019 Jon G. Isaac

"In January, the Center for International Maritime Security published an article [ http://cimsec.org/why-turkish-f-35s-are ... nato/39465 ] in which the author advocated against Turkey’s ongoing participation in the development, manufacture, & eventual purchase of the F-35 Lighting II. Broadly, as January’s piece noted, debate over Ankara’s eventual acquisition of the F-35 has come as a result of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s insistence upon purchasing & operating the Russian-made S-400 Triumf air defense missile system (NATO reporting tag: SA-21 Growler)….

Where Do We Go From Here?
It appears, for now, that Ankara faces a choice. In Washington, legislative efforts to bar sales of the F-35 to Turkey seem to have garnered bipartisan support and congressional support. In Ankara, Erdogan leveraged the S-400 issue at almost all of his campaign rallies leading up to the March 31st Turkish elections. Elections which, coincidentally, took a toll on Erdogan’s AKP party on the local level. Nevertheless, Erdogan has continued to posture surrounding the S-400 issue, with the European Council on Foreign Relation’s Asli Aydıntaşbaş writing that Erdogan has seemingly adopted the issue as “a sign of his virility, his independence, his power on the world stage that he could say no to [the] United States.”

Internally, it seems that there are those among Erdogan’s staff who believe the Americans are bluffing and that both systems will eventually solidify themselves in the Turkish arsenal. They are not entirely helpless, either, with American basing rights at the critical Incirlik Air Base standing as a potential bargaining chip for Turkish negotiators. Turkish negotiators face a hard battle, however, as the Pentagon has said it is already looking for alternatives to the F-35 parts currently made in Turkey.

This standoff has not only placed pressure on the Turkish-U.S. relationship, but moreover is raising questions about Ankara’s standing within NATO as a whole. Rick Berger, a former Senate Budget Committee staffer and current researcher at the American Enterprise Institute has noted that this flashpoint has repeatedly brought up, “the whole ‘Should Turkey be in NATO?’ question.” Moreover, the NATO countries that operate the F-35 have internally expressed concern over interoperability with Turkish airframes should they link to the S-400. At a time when Russian President Vladimir Putin has regularly engaged in policies aimed at destabilizing the transatlantic alliance, perhaps the Turkish F-35 crisis presents not just a commercial or political threat to the U.S.-Turkey relationship, but a strategic threat to NATO as a whole."

Source: https://navalinstitute.com.au/turkey-ch ... -what-now/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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polarbear

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Unread post28 May 2019, 12:06

loke wrote:
Turkish naval officers who were indicted in 2013 for alleged involvement in a military espionage ring that obtained classified Turkish, NATO and US documents were not only allowed to stay in the military but were promoted to senior ranks in many cases.

...... deleted the filth in between to conserve space .......

The indictment also included excerpts from documents seized from the espionage gang that clearly show how members forced military officers to give them confidential military information after video taping them in sexual encounters with the foreign women hired by the gang. “We obtained the [military] plans for attack and defense in the event of a war in the Black Sea thanks to photos obtained by T.D. T.D. will serve as our eyes and ears in the military from now on. M.T.A. says he liked the blonde we sent him. We have footage of sexual intercourse between General A.L.T.’s son T with E.İ. We also have footage of General Ş.’s daughter. We will follow them all,” read the documents.
[b]The criminal case against the gang members was quashed by the Erdoğan government, and all suspects were let go. Many returned to their duties in the Turkish military, advancing in the ranks despite their controversial records.


The full five-page secret report is posted below:

https://www.nordicmonitor.com/2019/05/t ... documents/

This cannot possibly be true!??


Becouse it is not true. This website is run by Gulen's disciples. Not a reliable source.

This case is a "von Fritsch" type. Malik Ejder is the lawyer of one of the victims; he has videos on his twitter account showing dirty policemen, finding evidence without searching or raiding the house of his client to plant false evidence. Tragicomical stuff. It is a product of a time when rookie sultan and mad imam were in good terms, and rookie sultan was afraid of army. In this case and its sisters, no dirty trick was spared; and to be able to do so they wrecked juricidial system.
It is one of major reasons why turkish people hate them so much.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post01 Jun 2019, 06:37

I'll guess a more reliable source for this 'talking Turkey' (or is it TURKEY TALKIN' - like JIVE TALKIN'?) or just gobble gobble?
EXCLUSIVE: Trump approves Turkish offer for joint S-400 study group
31 May 2019 Ragip Soylu

"In call with Turkish president, Trump agrees to body to find ways to cohabit Ankara's purchase of F-35s and Russian missile system

US President Donald Trump has accepted an offer to form a joint technical study group with Turkey to investigate Washington's concerns over Ankara's purchase of the Russian-made S-400 missile system, Middle East Eye has learned. According to several Turkish officials, Trump, in a phone call with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan on Wednesday, overruled the Pentagon and the State Department who had been against the study group.

US officials were concerned that Ankara's purchase of the missile system would put advanced stealth F-35 fighter jets, which Turkey has also ordered, at risk because Moscow could steal sensitive information through the system's radar. Confident of their assessment on the dangers posed by the missile system, US defence officials had refused to participate in the study group multiple times over the course of the past two months.

In a single phone call, that policy changed.

US National Security Council spokesman Garrett Marquis told Middle East Eye that there's "nothing new to announce at this time". "We have been clear that obtaining the S-400 would create an unacceptable risk to US technology, our pilots, and our aircraft," Marquis added.

Similarly, Pentagon spokesman Eric Pahon said that discussions remain ongoing. "The United States has sent technical teams to Turkey more than once and hosted counterparts here to discuss the threat posed by the S-400, our mutual participation in the F-35 programme, and the US Patriot offer," Pahon added....

...However, there is a consensus among the foreign policy establishment both in Turkey and the US that the White House does not have much power against the members of Congress who are adamant about implementing sanctions against Turkey over the Russian missile system.

Last week, a final draft of the National Defence Authorisation Act barred the transfer of F-35s to Turkey in the case of the purchase of the S-400 missile system. US legislators also threatened the Trump administration that they could ratify specific laws to target Turkey if the president doesn't enforce the existing law that invokes sanctions against Ankara."

Source: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/trum ... fer-s-400s
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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polarbear

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 05:05

We have a name for these people: "white trolls". Most of what they write is trash but sometimes they have insider info. This one looks like one of the better educated ones among the pack.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 05:34

The Congress has the final says and it won't provide F-35's to Turkey. If, they acquire the S-400. Regardless, what Trump wants.....
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polarbear

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 11:50

Corsair1963 wrote:The Congress has the final says and it won't provide F-35's to Turkey. If, they acquire the S-400. Regardless, what Trump wants.....


We shall see. I am betting my 2 cents on the ingenuity of Lockheed sales people.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 21:25

LM does not want to sell them to Turkey either if Turkey gets the S-400 and especially of Turkey becomes a dev partner on the S-500.

Doing so will hurt all their other sales as customers will rightfully assume that Russia has access to the F-35's radar data if not the jet itself.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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vilters

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 21:45

Money talks, all the rest will be forgiven and forgotten in weeks.
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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 21:51

Money does talk.. 1 sale vs all the rest.

Besides, the USG will not allow is so all this postulation is moot.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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Corsair1963

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Unread post02 Jun 2019, 23:44

polarbear wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The Congress has the final says and it won't provide F-35's to Turkey. If, they acquire the S-400. Regardless, what Trump wants.....


We shall see. I am betting my 2 cents on the ingenuity of Lockheed sales people.



It's come to a point that many no longer feel that we can trust Turkey. This includes many in NATO. So, this is hardly just a US vs Turkey Issue....
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boilermaker

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 06:32

The only way to give Turkey F35s is if we gave them THAADS in a one to one trade for the S400 they get and F35s for whatever S57 they plan on getting. Like that they transfer us their Russian hardware and we give them ours. But it could go the other way, is the problem. I mean we have a serious end user agreement issue with Turkey
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loke

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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 20:33

The US government is pushing back against reports that President Donald Trump acquiesced to Turkey’s request to discuss Ankara’s pending purchase of a Russian missile defense system, telling Al-Monitor that its concerns “cannot be mitigated.”

The comments come after the London-based Middle East Eye news site, citing “several Turkish officials,” reported today that Trump had overruled the State and Defense departments and agreed to create a working group on the issue in a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan earlier this week. US officials have suspended Turkey’s participation in the F-35 fighter jet program over the pending purchase, but Ankara believes it can convince them that the Russian technology isn’t a threat.

“We have been clear that purchasing the S-400 would create an unacceptable risk because its radar system could provide the Russian military sensitive information on the F-35,” Department of Defense spokesman Eric Pahon told Al-Monitor. “Those concerns cannot be mitigated. The S-400 is a system Russia built to try to shoot down aircraft like the F-35, and it is inconceivable to imagine Russia not taking advantage of the collection opportunity.”

Instead, the US administration continues to try to convince its NATO ally to purchase the US-made Patriot missile defense system.


Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... z5pocVAANR
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Unread post03 Jun 2019, 21:16

loke wrote:
The US government is pushing back against reports that President Donald Trump acquiesced to Turkey’s request to discuss Ankara’s pending purchase of a Russian missile defense system, telling Al-Monitor that its concerns “cannot be mitigated.”

The comments come after the London-based Middle East Eye news site, citing “several Turkish officials,” reported today that Trump had overruled the State and Defense departments and agreed to create a working group on the issue in a phone call with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan earlier this week. US officials have suspended Turkey’s participation in the F-35 fighter jet program over the pending purchase, but Ankara believes it can convince them that the Russian technology isn’t a threat.

“We have been clear that purchasing the S-400 would create an unacceptable risk because its radar system could provide the Russian military sensitive information on the F-35,” Department of Defense spokesman Eric Pahon told Al-Monitor. “Those concerns cannot be mitigated. The S-400 is a system Russia built to try to shoot down aircraft like the F-35, and it is inconceivable to imagine Russia not taking advantage of the collection opportunity.”

Instead, the US administration continues to try to convince its NATO ally to purchase the US-made Patriot missile defense system.


Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/origin ... z5pocVAANR


Nothing new. Both leaders being deadlocked transferred the problem to a powerless committee.
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