Denmark reconsidering JSF?

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mk82

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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 15:01

steakanddoritos wrote:
mk82 wrote:BS is truly a loser......a sore one at that! If I were SAAB, I would tell BS to shut the f**k up...he is making SAAB look bad as he is insinuating that SAAB does not trust their potential Scandinavian customers (there has not been any indication that Denmark will sabotage SAAB's bid!). That is not great advertising! Frankly, I think SAAB realised that their Gripen NG is not going to do too well against its competitors after a premilinary look at the Danish requirements....sorry Bill...that is how the cookie crumbles.

I guess BS now hates Swiss chocolates and Danish herring. :devil:

Is there any serious evidence that Denmark has jimmied the competition, or at least is looking seriously at the F-35 more than other competitors (SHornet and Tiffy)?


The Danish government's words and actions do not indicate any sort of bias in their fighter competition at this point in time. BS was just making half arsed excuses for SAAB's refusal to bid.
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bring_it_on

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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 15:12

Clearly the Gripen, the only 6th generation fighter in the competition is at a disadvantage when everybody else is showing up with 5th generation and 4.5 generation designs :bang:
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KamenRiderBlade

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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 16:12

bring_it_on wrote:Clearly the Gripen, the only 6th generation fighter in the competition is at a disadvantage when everybody else is showing up with 5th generation and 4.5 generation designs :bang:


<sarcasm> I thought Gripen was claimed to be 7th, 8th, or 9th gen; not this lowly 6th gen</sarcasm>

=D
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XanderCrews

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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 16:37

steakanddoritos wrote:
mk82 wrote:BS is truly a loser......a sore one at that! If I were SAAB, I would tell BS to shut the f**k up...he is making SAAB look bad as he is insinuating that SAAB does not trust their potential Scandinavian customers (there has not been any indication that Denmark will sabotage SAAB's bid!). That is not great advertising! Frankly, I think SAAB realised that their Gripen NG is not going to do too well against its competitors after a premilinary look at the Danish requirements....sorry Bill...that is how the cookie crumbles.

I guess BS now hates Swiss chocolates and Danish herring. :devil:

Is there any serious evidence that Denmark has jimmied the competition, or at least is looking seriously at the F-35 more than other competitors (SHornet and Tiffy)?


good question. We would have to have a look and see.
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 16:41

The Eurofighter is fairly expensive, I'm not sure the Danes will be able to afford it. However, it has the advantage of European partnership, although this advantage is shared with the F-35. Boeing is desperate to sell more SHornets, I wouldn't be suprised if they try to jack the price down as low as possible. Frankly, I see the F-35 having a good shot at this. Sorry Billy Bob.
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 16:53

steakanddoritos wrote:The Eurofighter is fairly expensive, I'm not sure the Danes will be able to afford it. However, it has the advantage of European partnership, although this advantage is shared with the F-35. Boeing is desperate to sell more SHornets, I wouldn't be suprised if they try to jack the price down as low as possible. Frankly, I see the F-35 having a good shot at this. Sorry Billy Bob.


Boeing will go hard, this is one they were hoping to have a shot at to extend the line, its slated to shut down in 2016 I believe. If the danes make their decision after that, it won't be an option anymore


KamenRiderBlade wrote:
bring_it_on wrote:Clearly the Gripen, the only 6th generation fighter in the competition is at a disadvantage when everybody else is showing up with 5th generation and 4.5 generation designs :bang:


<sarcasm> I thought Gripen was claimed to be 7th, 8th, or 9th gen; not this lowly 6th gen</sarcasm>

=D


11rd gen.
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 17:21

Yep. According to Spinal Tap - crank it up to ELEVEN!
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 19:07

spazsinbad wrote:Yep. According to Spinal Tap - crank it up to ELEVEN!


No, 11th gen would be the Gripen G/H around 2040.
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 20:01

mk82 wrote:
steakanddoritos wrote:
mk82 wrote:BS is truly a loser......a sore one at that! If I were SAAB, I would tell BS to shut the f**k up...he is making SAAB look bad as he is insinuating that SAAB does not trust their potential Scandinavian customers (there has not been any indication that Denmark will sabotage SAAB's bid!). That is not great advertising! Frankly, I think SAAB realised that their Gripen NG is not going to do too well against its competitors after a premilinary look at the Danish requirements....sorry Bill...that is how the cookie crumbles.

I guess BS now hates Swiss chocolates and Danish herring. :devil:

Is there any serious evidence that Denmark has jimmied the competition, or at least is looking seriously at the F-35 more than other competitors (SHornet and Tiffy)?


The Danish government's words and actions do not indicate any sort of bias in their fighter competition at this point in time. BS was just making half arsed excuses for SAAB's refusal to bid.



http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Air/Gripen- ... -campaign/

Denmark is set to buy new fighter planes and the task of defining the new aircraft and who is to deliver them is in full swing. Saab is one of the four candidates - and we are keen to help to ensure an open debate, with this newsletter as one of the initiatives. We will use this newsletter to present Saab's views on the debate and the selection process – and to provide concrete information about the Gripen aircraft and our fighter aircraft activities in other countries.

Right now, we are eagerly awaiting the Danish RBI (Request for Binding Information). This document will define the requirements of Denmark's new fighter aircraft and set the framework for the ongoing process.

With the Gripen, Saab has won half of the competitions we have participated in, after adjustment for the cases where the country in question finally had to cancel the procurement. Most recently, Brazil has invested in the Gripen and, in fact, there is more global interest in this aircraft now than ever before. This proves how competitive the Gripen programme is – in terms of both technology and price.

We are also very optimistic about the opportunities in Denmark. We consider the Gripen to be the obvious choice for the Danes in view of the strong combination of flight characteristics, technology and economy. Based on Saab's unique industrial cooperation experience, we will be able to create many new jobs in Denmark.

We will naturally present this argument in the ongoing debate, while also respecting that this is a major, important decision for Denmark – and that the debate must therefore be as broad and public as possible. We look forward to an open, transparent and fair competition. In this newsletter we present our views and information, while at the same time we wish to engage in dialogue with Denmark and the Danes.

With kind regards,

Robert Björklund
Campaign Leader, Gripen Denmark


Went from that to not even bidding. :doh:

remember though the F-35 is the worst ever that everyone wants, and is emulating, and the Gripen is the best ever, that no wants, and Saab isn't bothering to bid it. What a wacky world we live in.
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Unread post22 Jul 2014, 20:04

bring_it_on wrote:
spazsinbad wrote:Yep. According to Spinal Tap - crank it up to ELEVEN!


No, 11th gen would be the Gripen G/H around 2040.


Gripen was only in service 8 years before they invented the NG concept in 2005. So its looking like by 2027 we will be seeing your G/H's concept art. exciting

The four candidates included in the selection process for the new Danish fighter are:
- Eurofighter Typhoon
- Boeing F/A-18F Super Hornet
- Lockheed F-35A Joint Strike Fighter
- Saab Gripen E.

Request for Binding Information (RBI)

The RBI had been planned in the Defence Planning 2013-2017 and it consists of a questionnaire with approximately 950 questions, a total of 1000 pages and it contains four chapters for each of the areas of evaluation:
Strategic issues will include focus on the relationship between the candidates and the overall Danish security and defense policy objectives. It is partly about security aspects, and partly on the military strategic aspects in relation to cooperation with other countries.
Military issues will focus on candidates’ ability to provide operational power and if the aircraft is future proof with questions about life expectancy and risks associated with each candidate.
The Economic evaluation focuses on a comparative assessment of the candidates’ life cycle costs, including costs associated with the acquisition and ongoing operation and maintenance (O&S costs).
The questions about industrial cooperation focuses on how the procurement of the candidates may support the Danish Industry and Danish security interests.

Selection process; final decision end 2015

The candidateshave received the RBI 10-apr-2014 and are expected to submit their response to the request in July 2014 tot the Director of the Nyt Kampfly Program (New Combat Aircraft Program).
Hereafter, it will be analyzed, validated and eventually additional information will be gathered from the manufacturers. As a result an evaluation report will be provided to the Minister of Defense as a basis for procurement proposals at the political level. Planning is a final decision about mid-2015, followed by Parliamentary Approval and negotiations with the selected manufacturer.

Director of New Combat Aircraft Program, Lone Lindsby said about the RBI:
“I am pleased that we are sending the request for information, because it is an important milestone in the program. We are trying to keep the planned schedule, and we are very focused on providing a clear and transparent decision support that provides the best possible conditions for the final decision in this fighter procurement process. “

Quality assurance by RAND and Deloitte

The Evaluation Process quality will be assured externally by Deloitte Denmark (part of the Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu Limited DTTL, a British company) in cooperation with RAND Europe (an US owned company). This should help to ensure that the process is conducted in accordance with the principles of traceability, transparency, integrity and equality.


http://www.jsfnieuws.nl/?p=1143
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Unread post23 Jul 2014, 05:03

XanderCrews wrote:
Went from that to not even bidding. :doh:

remember though the F-35 is the worst ever that everyone wants, and is emulating, and the Gripen is the best ever, that no wants, and Saab isn't bothering to bid it. What a wacky world we live in.




LOL The Gripen NG while a very capable 4.5 Generation Fighter and good value for the money in my book. It is hardly in the league with the F-35 in Capability! Which, explains why fighter sales of 4.5 Generation Fighters and not done so well. I's obvious most have been waiting on the F-35. Including "Denmark". :doh:
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Unread post16 Jun 2015, 21:50

Reasons to be cheerful? Parts 5 Billion....?
$5B And 700 High Tech Jobs: Reasons Why F-35 Has Friends
16 Jun 2015 Colin Clark

"...Some $5 billion of those reasons were on display yesterday when the Danish company Terma and Lockheed Martin signed an MOU giving Terma, Denmark’s defense company, a whole lot of business should a new Danish government approve purchase of the F-35.

Terma signed a long-term agreement with Lockheed Martin two years ago for manufacture of composite and bonded assembly parts for the three variants of the F-35. It has also signed agreements for other F-35 work with Northrop Grumman, BAE Systems, General Dynamics, and Marvin Engineering....

....He [Terma CEO Jens Maaløe] also said it would mean $5 billion or more for Denmark over the next few years. With a GDP of $335 billion, that is not chump change for tiny Denmark.

Danes head to the polls on Thursday. If the current government stays in power then a decision on whether to fully commit to the F-35 is expected relatively quickly. Should the opposition win, they will need time to analyze the data and the country’s finances before coming to what most observers expect will be the decision to stick with the program and buy at least 24 F-35As.

Denmark has been a Joint Strike Fighter partner since 2002. However, as good stewards of their taxpayer’s money, the current government is analyzing the F-35A, Boeing’s F/A-18 Super Hornet and the Eurofighter Typhoon for the $4.5 billion contract. Each company presented bids for 24, 30 and 36 combat aircraft...."

Source: http://breakingdefense.com/2015/06/5b-a ... s-friends/
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Unread post21 Aug 2015, 14:39

Retired Danish fighter pilots favour the Super Hornet over the F-35 and Eurofighter

DAVID PUGLIESE, OTTAWA CITIZEN / 21AUG15

"Some Defence Watch readers have been pointing to a recent article published by Politiken, a Danish newspaper. The piece was written by three former Royal Danish Air Force pilots – Michael Huusom, Niels Gunnar Sørensen and Ole Ryberg...."

"As one Defence Watch reader noted, the pilots argue that it is time to reassess the myth about the F-35 being the favourite option in the Danish fighter jet competition, suggesting that “Denmark does not need a ‘first day of war’ plane which is still in development without any certainty about future costs.”

“The F-35 was initially intended as a good and cheap replacement for the F-16 plane,” they write. “But it has developed into a very expensive and complicated plane.”

“We do not need a dogfighter like the Eurofighter either, which is expensive and falls behind the technological development,” they also wrote.

The pilots recommend Denmark acquire the Super Hornet, which they acknowledge might not be the sexiest choice, but it “can deliver what Denmark needs at an affordable price.”"

Original article, in Danish: http://politiken.dk/debat/kroniken/ECE2 ... gtige-fly/

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/ ... urofighter
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Unread post21 Aug 2015, 15:50

The Super Hornet is highly suitable for customers that are not looking for either first day attack capability or combat performance edge over current and future threats. It should serve Denmark well if this is the what interests them. In that case I am pretty sure SAAB can sell the Gripen C's for less than the Rhino's cost.
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Unread post21 Aug 2015, 16:18

So three "retired" pilots, who by that fact have no access to F-35 info & clearly are getting their info wrong are thereby making determinations based on public info......

Gee, I bet if I look hard enough I can get retired tankers who think the M60A3 was better than the M1.

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