Norway to reduce F-35 order?

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mixelflick

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Unread post23 May 2019, 13:36

spazsinbad wrote:
mixelflick wrote:
marsavian wrote:....


This won't be popular, but I honestly believe the F-22 will win any F-22 vs. 35 engagement rather handily. The reason? The F-22 MUST have some secret sauce the F-35 doesn't, otherwise why would the F-22 be banned from export? And what happens if we sell F-35's to Turkey, they pull an Iran and.....? I have to believe that situation has already been worked up and accounted for. We're selling the F-35 to (almost) anyone with the $. NOBODY (not even Israel) is getting the F-22 - by law. To me, that speaks volumes...

Come on 'mixelflick' members of this forum have explained AD NAUSEAM why 'the F-22 cannot be exported whilst the F-35 is DESIGNED for export (obvious). The F-35 has ANTI-TAMPER features in it, this feature has been explained here.

'bumtish' started a recent thread: Debunked F-35 myths and FUD - the classics:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=54369&p=399796&hilit=tamper#p399796

Then there is: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=53202&p=370270&hilit=tamper#p370270 [all text here]

FOR Mission To Keep the Secrets 01 May 2010 John Keller : http://www.militaryaerospace.com/index/ ... p_the.html


I stand by what I said: The F-22 has attributes that other aircraft (including the F-35) doesn't. I can't tell you what they are, because they're classified. But Burke wouldn't have said what he did if it didn't.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 May 2019, 13:54

Pray tell us what the good BERKE said - according to you.
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steve2267

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Unread post23 May 2019, 16:41

What Spaz said... what did Col Burke say? Reference / link(s) please.
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post22 Jun 2019, 22:56

Read also: Hill AFB’s fighter wings demonstrate global reach with F-35A 18 Jun 2019
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ith-f-35a/
Norwegian F-35 maintainers service American jets in historic first-time visit
21 Jun 2019 Master Sgt. Austin M. May, 52nd Fighter Wing Public Affairs

"ORLAND AIR BASE, Norway (AFNS) -- For the first time outside the U.S., Norwegian and American F-35 Lightning II maintainers worked together on their aircraft June 17. A team of five maintainers and four pilots from the 421st Expeditionary Fighter Squadron deployed to Norway for the historic cross-servicing event, during which the maintenance teams received and turned two American F-35As after their arrival from Finland.

The Norwegian air force already operates a fleet of 12 F-35s at Orland Air Base, and plans to eventually employ 52 of the fifth-generation aircraft throughout Norway. The visit was the first time American F-35s have landed in Norway. “All firsts are special,” said Royal Norwegian Air Force Lt. Col. Eirik Guldvog, 132nd Air Wing executive officer and chief of staff. “For Norway and our European allies, who are entering the fifth-generation fighter era, it’s important to both have the U.S. on board and to train with the other partners around the North Sea. “To have multinational cooperation within these nations and to have a significant F-35-capable force in the North Atlantic, of course that is important,” Guldvog continued. “This is the first step.”

While the visit was short, it was an opportunity to practice seamless integration in preparation for future deployments. “Air operations are often multinational, so it’s important that we train together and find every opportunity to interact on a normal basis,” Guldvog said.

According to U.S. Air Force Capt. Brett Burnside, 421st EFS F-35 pilot, the entire endeavor felt familiar and without any significant challenges. “Even though they are from a different country and speak a different language, they are fighter pilots as we are,” Burnside said. “We simply connected with them on our F-35 datalink and it was just like working with any U.S. F-35 unit.”

Burnside said because Norway is a partner in the F-35 program, it’s extremely important to continue to foster this relationship. Additionally, he said Norway’s geographic location is immensely strategic as they have a large responsibility in quick reaction alert to scramble fighters to intercept hostile aircraft in the arctic region if necessary...."

Source: https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ime-visit/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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optimist

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 02:21

steve2267 wrote:What Spaz said... what did Col Burke say? Reference / link(s) please.

When it was being offered to australia, before the ban. Those that are in the know at the time. Said that there is high tech in the f-22. It isn't the reason why it isn't exported. Aussies have access to higher tech than is in the f-22. We have exchange pilots flying the f-22. Some may recall at the time, there were serious structural issues and talk of the US moving away from the EU and US vs Soviet era weapons. It also came down the the US being able to guarantee the support for the F-22, over the life of foreign sale. We had the F-111 experience. For us, the F-35 was seen as a better option. The rest is politics.

It is as reported and as spaz said, there are no anti tamper features built in and as such the tech is vulnerable and not for general distribution. Uk would have been possible, I doubt whether Japan would have got it, anyway. Even though it was desired by them. His reference to 'even' Israel not being offered it, as if it meant something. Israel would have also been low on the list.
Last edited by optimist on 23 Jun 2019, 02:57, edited 1 time in total.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 02:49

Properly this segue about 'F-22 for Australia' belongs on the Australian thread where it has been made clear the RAAF NEVER required the F-22. They wanted the all singing all dancing STRIKE FIGHTER wot is F-35A. Nobody offered the F-22 to Australia. It was perhaps mentioned BUT NEVER OFFERED and Oz NEVER WANTED IT. I'll provide reference to go there:

http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/ceo/record/21FEB.pdf [probably no longer there so go here:]

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=23043&p=307623&hilit=Harvey#p307623 [one of 3 references in thread]

download/file.php?id=21995 21FEB 2007 no F-22 for OZ original.pdf (10Kb)
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optimist

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 03:01

LM had their aussie powerpoint, it may still be on the net somewhere. It was being offered, perhaps not as widely known, or even acknowledged. RAAF didn't request the F-22. When our PM returned from a trip to the US. We went for the all singing and dancing f-35, cancelling the comp we were doing. The Rafale guys were at the airport. He also came back singing praise for a nuke power station and aussies as the world's dumping ground for spent fuel.

Found it and a better one https://wikileaks.org/wiki/Lockheed_Mar ... fing,_2001
There is a U.S. law called the Obey Amendment that prohibited DoD funds to be spent on export efforts for the F-22 Raptor. Despite this, Lockheed Martin, the United States Air Force (USAF) and possibly the State Department did indeed try to do an export effort including high level briefings to Australia back in 2001.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 03:48

This is NOT the Autralian thread. You said it yourself: "...RAAF didn't request the F-22...." End of story. Rest is just fluff.

Also in Oz thread: CAF Houston 2002: Case for JSF [not F-22] http://www.defence.gov.au/news/raafnews ... ture01.htm
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optimist

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 04:12

There was a US offer, that is the point. Call it fluff if you wish to.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 04:18

Yep I do. FLUFF.
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Conan

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 04:33

optimist wrote:There was a US offer, that is the point. Call it fluff if you wish to.


An unsolicited L-M briefing is not an offer. Companies provide unsolicited briefings and offers all the time. That’s all there ever was.

No request from RAAF and no requirements work ups within DoD, rather like the situation with F-35B actually...

Now, back to Norway, I guess.
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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 05:47

I'll bite but first thanks for the response 'Conan': "how is that similar to F-35B"? Who said anything about that to Norway?
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optimist

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 08:44

I think he meant the f-35b re Australia, not Norway. I guess it comes under "The rest is politics."
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spazsinbad

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 09:31

:bang: :roll: :doh: This thread is now back to NORWAY (or the HIGHWAY?!) :devil: 8) :shock:
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Unread post24 Jun 2019, 14:51

It's time for travel recommendations:

https://www.google.no/maps/place/Scandi ... 10.9127367

Yes, close to the highway!

Hell_norway_sign.jpg
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