Finnish DefMin interested in F-35s, not Gripens

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 12 Feb 2020, 23:35

loke wrote:It clearly pays off to not be early adopter.

Can you translate that into Portuguese and Swedish for some of our slower fans here?

jetblast16 · by **jetblast16** » 13 Feb 2020, 02:21

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 13 Feb 2020, 02:40

I know tanker problems possibly as a result of bad weather resulted in only two F-35's flying to Finland for the HX Challenge. Does anyone know if the remaining two F-35's eventually flew in? That is, are there two or four Lightnings in Finland now?

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 13 Feb 2020, 02:43

steve2267 wrote:I know tanker problems possibly as a result of bad weather resulted in only two F-35's flying to Finland for the HX Challenge. Does anyone know if the remaining two F-35's eventually flew in? That is, are there two or four Lightnings in Finland now?

From spazzy post btm previous page: "...only two F-35As were able to make the journey.…"

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 13 Feb 2020, 02:52

spazsinbad wrote:From spazzy post btm previous page: "...only two F-35As were able to make the journey.…"

I saw that Spaz. Billie Flynn had tweeted on Feb 7:

Day #7. 2 jets made it to Finland and #HXChallenge. Refueling tankers could not support taking 4 F-35s across the ocean so we sent 2 jets instead. Looking forward to this week’s flying exercises in Finland.

https://twitter.com/billieflynn/status/1226592737698439178

And sometimes journos are known to be late or not up-to-date with their blurbling... so I was curious if the other two jets were still a-goin'...

Sounds like the answer is no.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 13 Feb 2020, 02:56

I tweeted Mr. Flynn and asked. If he deigns to answer, I will update this thread...

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 13 Feb 2020, 04:00

DEIGNS? I doffs me lid m'lud.

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 13 Feb 2020, 08:59

It seems like every candidate is tested under similar conditions. Very historically atypical weather conditions which have been significantly warmer than average and almost no snow in southern Finland. Good thing that everyone gets similar conditions though.

loke · by **loke** » 13 Feb 2020, 09:41

hornetfinn wrote:It seems like every candidate is tested under similar conditions. Very historically atypical weather conditions which have been significantly warmer than average and almost no snow in southern Finland. Good thing that everyone gets similar conditions though.

With global warming this "atypical" weather will become more and more typical...

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 13 Feb 2020, 10:56

loke wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:It seems like every candidate is tested under similar conditions. Very historically atypical weather conditions which have been significantly warmer than average and almost no snow in southern Finland. Good thing that everyone gets similar conditions though.

With global warming this "atypical" weather will become more and more typical...

Probably true, but I think we will also get cold winters with a lot of snow. But white Christmas is definitely going to be rare at least in Southern Finland. I'm just glad that everybody gets similar conditions for the HX challenge as it was very possible that conditions would've been totally different for each candidate.

blindpilot · by **blindpilot** » 13 Feb 2020, 15:59

loke wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:It seems like every candidate is tested under similar conditions. Very historically atypical weather conditions which have been significantly warmer than average and almost no snow in southern Finland. Good thing that everyone gets similar conditions though.

With global warming this "atypical" weather will become more and more typical...

Hey if they need it we could ship them some of this -5 F (-20 C) about a foot (.1 M) of white colored global warming we had a couple days ago.

Just saying,
BP

loke · by **loke** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:06

blindpilot wrote:
loke wrote:
hornetfinn wrote:It seems like every candidate is tested under similar conditions. Very historically atypical weather conditions which have been significantly warmer than average and almost no snow in southern Finland. Good thing that everyone gets similar conditions though.

With global warming this "atypical" weather will become more and more typical...

Hey if they need it we could ship them some of this -5 F (-20 C) about a foot (.1 M) of white colored global warming we had a couple days ago.

Just saying,
BP

google "difference between weather and climate"

botsing · by **botsing** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:20

loke wrote:google "difference between weather and climate"

And also the "difference between local and global". :mrgreen:

Anyway, I am glad that all contenders had the same weather conditions. This will prevent some backlash from the other contenders if/when the F-35 will be chosen.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:43

Have not heard from Billie on Twitter, and none of our Scandinavian members have confirmed arrival of two more Lightnings, so it would seem only two F-35's flew over the pond for the HX Challenge. That's too bad... demonstrating a four ship over Finland would have been pretty cool.

This Google Earth screen capture demonstrates that three fourships would seem to cover the length and breadth of the country. Casting a net of sixty-four Lightnings over Finland would be awesome... might, in fact, be too crowded!

Blue and magenta lines are 210nm in length, representing a fourship spaced 70nm apart. Cyan line is approx. 170nm in length.

steve2267 · by **steve2267** » 13 Feb 2020, 16:53

Way back on Oct 4, 2017,

magitsu wrote:This interview gives some strong hints. If they can be taken at face value, then at least Rafale is in dire straits. https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-2000005393678.html

The Chief of Logistics Command * says that they are looking to spend only 10% of the total cost of the project to weapons and equipment. Which means 700 to 1000 million, most likely being the former.

700 million, aka the amount RAAF is looking to spend on 450 AIM-120D alone, to be used for all weapons and equipment?!? That's basically impossible proposition with regard to Rafale since it would mean a complete change of weaponry. The current kit is 120C7, AIM-9X, JDAMs and JASSM. Some of the previous kit could be used by first and foremost the Super Hornet and the F-35. Rafale on the other hand needs to go big or go home. I'd consider some kind of weapon leasing for e.g. cruise missiles since they can't realistically expect them to be able to swap everything in one go.

Is Finland still keeping to the idea of spending only 10% on weapons? Does this mean the plan going forward is to simply stick with existing stocks of AIM-120C7's as primary BVR weapon? Have any of you Finns read of interest in either the AIM-120D? The 120D, or better still, the Meteor would let fewer Lightnings really cover all of Finland quite well.