Finnish DefMin interested in F-35s, not Gripens

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 10 Oct 2014, 09:34

Thanks to Putin, Finnish Hornets are racking up their flying hours at an accelerated pace. Perhaps a decision on a follow-on fighter may move forward as a consequence?

http://www.adn.com/article/20141008/fin ... ills-north

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 10 Oct 2014, 11:49

Finnish DefMin has just set up a working group this week to prepare the Hornet replacement process start. They will just do some preliminary report to help decision making when and how to start the actual replacement process. The report will include the basic needs, requirements and possible ways to replace the Hornets. The replacement process will be officially started in 2015 and the selection will be made in early 2020s. The actual aircraft would be produced and procured during 2025-2030 or so. Of course all this can change, but that's the current plan.

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 18 Oct 2014, 10:15

GOOD LUCK to dem FInns and what are dose Norwayians up to?....

Finnish Defence Forces to replace aging Hornet fighter fleet
18 Oct 2014 Sources Yle

"If the fleet is replaced with new jets, it will cost an estimated 6 billion euros. How its replaced will also signal Finland's future defence strategy: whether to go solo, join forces with Sweden, or enter the NATO alliance.

The Ministry of Defence has commissioned a working group to investigate what type of air defence system Finland needs in the future. Replacing the aging Hornet fighter fleet will cost an estimated 6 billion euros. Owing to the hefty price tag, the working group is also looking to see whether its possible to upgrade the existing fleet, which has been in service since 1995.

"Technical developments need to be taken into account as do the changing needs of our defence environment, which is what we're investigating," says Lauri Puranen, who is responsible for Ministry of Defence acquisitions....

...The preliminary working group will not take a stand on the type or number of planes that should be purchased. To provide some context, neighbour Norway recently chose a new generation of F-35 Hornets. In Finland, the new version of the familiar fighter jet family seems to be favoured -- in spite of their very high price tag. The new fighter jets would be the most expensive defence acquisition in the next decade and take place in about 2030...."

Source: http://yle.fi/uutiset/finnish_defence_f ... et/7535139

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 18 Oct 2014, 14:01

hornetfinn wrote:Finnish DefMin has just set up a working group this week to prepare the Hornet replacement process start. They will just do some preliminary report to help decision making when and how to start the actual replacement process. The report will include the basic needs, requirements and possible ways to replace the Hornets. The replacement process will be officially started in 2015 and the selection will be made in early 2020s. The actual aircraft would be produced and procured during 2025-2030 or so. Of course all this can change, but that's the current plan.

By early next decade -Teen Series no longer in production, every likely EF and Rafale as well. Looks like an open field for the F-35.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 04 Nov 2014, 03:56

I don't see the Brazil deal having that big an impact on Finland's decision process.

http://www.c4isrnet.com/article/M5/2014 ... en-Finland
Sweden Sees New Chance To Sell Gripen to Finland

HELSINKI — Sweden hopes Saab’s $5.4 billion Gripen-E deal with Brazil can open a dialogue with Finland, which is on course to replace its F/A-18 Hornets in the next 10 years...According to Paulsen, the potential for the joint development of Gripen, and whether a common fighter type could be envisaged as a “serious proposition” going forward, will become clear once the armed forces of both states deliver their preliminary reports on practical cooperation later this year.

“These reports are expected by the end of November. The important political decision-making on bilateral defense collaboration is scheduled to start in February 2015, while the first concrete projects are expected to flow from April.

“As for Finland choosing Gripen, the present Finnish defense minister appears more impressed with the F-35 Lightning 11. How this may impact on Finnish-Swedish bilateral relations under the agreed framework will be interesting to see,” Paulsen said.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 04 Nov 2014, 07:34

popcorn wrote:I don't see the Brazil deal having that big an impact on Finland's decision process.

http://www.c4isrnet.com/article/M5/2014 ... en-Finland
Sweden Sees New Chance To Sell Gripen to Finland

HELSINKI — Sweden hopes Saab’s $5.4 billion Gripen-E deal with Brazil can open a dialogue with Finland, which is on course to replace its F/A-18 Hornets in the next 10 years...According to Paulsen, the potential for the joint development of Gripen, and whether a common fighter type could be envisaged as a “serious proposition” going forward, will become clear once the armed forces of both states deliver their preliminary reports on practical cooperation later this year.

“These reports are expected by the end of November. The important political decision-making on bilateral defense collaboration is scheduled to start in February 2015, while the first concrete projects are expected to flow from April.

“As for Finland choosing Gripen, the present Finnish defense minister appears more impressed with the F-35 Lightning 11. How this may impact on Finnish-Swedish bilateral relations under the agreed framework will be interesting to see,” Paulsen said.

While, I am sure Finland wants strong and even closer ties with Sweden. What it needs most is a strong deterrent towards Russia. My guess is Finland will in fact join NATO and likely purchase the F-35. Just my two cents.... :wink:

hornetfinn · by **hornetfinn** » 04 Nov 2014, 08:23

Corsair1963 wrote:While, I am sure Finland wants strong and even closer ties with Sweden. What it needs most is a strong deterrent towards Russia. My guess is Finland will in fact join NATO and likely purchase the F-35. Just my two cents....

I definitely agree. Gripen-E would not make much sense militarily, although it might be politically easier choice in some ways. Potentially going against PAK FAs, Su-35s and S-500/400 systems, I'd much rather take 30 F-35s than 40 Gripen-Es.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 05 Nov 2014, 03:45

hornetfinn wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:While, I am sure Finland wants strong and even closer ties with Sweden. What it needs most is a strong deterrent towards Russia. My guess is Finland will in fact join NATO and likely purchase the F-35. Just my two cents....

I definitely agree. Gripen-E would not make much sense militarily, although it might be politically easier choice in some ways. Potentially going against PAK FAs, Su-35s and S-500/400 systems, I'd much rather take 30 F-35s than 40 Gripen-Es.

Yes, and the Lightning's would work closely with US and NATO F-35's. :twisted:

pron · by **pron** » 01 Apr 2015, 21:05

Today a newspaper in Sweden tells that the government have opened up for Saab to share classified information about the new Gripen E with Finland. More on Swedish in the article, but you can use google translate.

http://www.di.se/artiklar/2015/4/1/finl ... pa-radarn/

barrelnut · by **barrelnut** » 06 Apr 2015, 18:48

pron wrote:Today a newspaper in Sweden tells that the government have opened up for Saab to share classified information about the new Gripen E with Finland. More on Swedish in the article, but you can use google translate.

http://www.di.se/artiklar/2015/4/1/finl ... pa-radarn/

Yes, I'm sure that the Gripen NG will be one of the candidates, however comments from the Air Force and the politicians in the defense committee, namely from the chairman Jussi Niinistö, indicates that the F-35 will be the preferred one.

He recently said in an interview that the "selecting an other plane besides the F-35 would be a purely political decision".

http://blogit.iltalehti.fi/jussi-niinis ... haamottaa/

Anyways, the Air Force has also said that they are currently drafting a document outlining the acquisition process, the document should be ready by next summer. They also said that it's far too early to talk about types, the whole process is in a very early stage at this point.

zerion · by **zerion** » 06 Jun 2015, 00:15

http://www.wsj.com/articles/warplane-ma ... australian

vilters · by **vilters** » 06 Jun 2015, 00:18

If they want a reliable aircraft??

Make a VERY LARGE turn around the Griphen.

A very-very-large turn around the thing.

Even the Sweeds can not make them fly reliably.

vilters · by **vilters** » 06 Jun 2015, 00:31

The most economical solution for the Fins is to buy the newest generation of Hornets.

They have the logistical chain in place, they have the weapons, maintainers, pilots.
Honestly, for the role they are playing? Its the best aircraft.

Nothing else comes close.

Dragon029 · by **Dragon029** » 06 Jun 2015, 08:55

vilters wrote:The most economical solution for the Fins is to buy the newest generation of Hornets.

They have the logistical chain in place, they have the weapons, maintainers, pilots.
Honestly, for the role they are playing? Its the best aircraft.

Nothing else comes close.

The logistic chain for the Super Hornet is separate to the classic Hornet's however - it'll be more familiar for the pilots, but that shouldn't really be used as a metric for comparison. I delegate my opinion to the staff that'll be making the decision for Finland, as they know what they want far better than I do, but I wonder whether a slightly smaller fleet of F-35s would be superior in the long run to a larger fleet of Super Hornets?

thomonkey · by **thomonkey** » 06 Jun 2015, 08:56

vilters wrote:The most economical solution for the Fins is to buy the newest generation of Hornets.

They have the logistical chain in place, they have the weapons, maintainers, pilots.
Honestly, for the role they are playing? Its the best aircraft.

Nothing else comes close.

Ya, but then you come around the problem of whether you want an economical air force that can't defend your airspace or a more expensive airforce that CAN.

In 5 years 4th gen will not be able to operate without 5th gen support and in 15 years, 4th gen will just be a liability in a battle, so its extremely short sighted to get super hornets.