F-35 - The Italian Perspective

[spazsinbad]

Wannabe CLOWN/COMIC led Italian Party wants to scrap the F-35 IF they get the power through elections next year? They should seek advice from the Canaduckaduckians. They can getogether for a real clown show - luv it!

Italy's anti-establishment Five Star party would scrap F-35 program
11 May 2017 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy’s anti-establishment Five Star Movement, the political party vying for top spot in polls ahead of elections due by next year, has committed to scrapping the F-35 program if it takes office.

“There will be no ifs or buts about leaving the F-35 program,” said Tatiana Basilio, a Five Star member of the Italian parliament during a presentation of the party’s defense manifesto on Thursday....

...The aircraft, and its price tag, has long been a target for the Five Star Movement, which was founded by comic Beppe Grillo in 2009 and has since campaigned to cut down on corruption and waste in public spending.

The party has risen in the polls in tandem with populist movements in other countries, and its leader Grillo has praised U.S. President Donald Trump and Russia President Vladimir Putin while criticising the policies of the European Union. ..."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ita ... 35-program

[nutshell]

Stop it there mate.

Yeah the f35 is at risk. Atm i can't name a single party that would guarantee for the program.

[SpudmanWP]

He's making the same mistake as Canada...

1. Spout off & make promises about a program that you have no classified access to.
2. Base all you opinion of the program on public pressure & "news" stories.
3. Be held to your promises despite finding out the truth when you take office.

[steve2267]

If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

[SpudmanWP]

If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

No, it's owned by Italy (and/or Italian companies) and not the JPO in general.

[steve2267]

If Italy actually followed through on this "promise", could the Calamari (sp?) FACO facility be closed and given to another nation that really wants the F-35?

No, it's owned by Italy (and/or Italian companies) and not the JPO in general.

Sorry, perhaps a poor choice of words on my part. Let me rephrase:

If Italy totally backs out of the F-35 (i.e. cancels contracts etc), could the Calamari FACO work be given to another nation? Let Italy keep their facility and try to find other work for it, but move the actual work to another nation.

[SpudmanWP]

Sure.. The right to bid on future contracts is based on continuing participation it the program. This is what Canada is finding out.

[bojack_horseman]

Imagine my shock as a political party in the Kremlin's pocket is fervently anti-F35.

In what will also be not at all shocking, this party are also against NATO.

[Corsair1963]

It's very unlikely that Italy will leave the F-35 Program. Regardless, who get's elected......Nonetheless, Italy only has herself to blame for this mess.

[nutshell]

Wow, thats a lot of wrong in just few posts.

I'm trying again this time should work:
NO DINERO!

All the parties, EACH ONE OF THEM, are having second thoughts about the F35, because...


...again...

...no coins left in the piggybank. Something has to go and the F35 MIGHT be one of the things.

Holy ****, not even the old PCI was THAT connected to the "mother Russia"; sorry but this is average Sputnik/RT commenter level of BS. I'm frankly amazed.

p.s.: its CAMERI, Calamari are...the squids

[neptune]

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-440164/

Audit report highlights Italy's F-35 challenges

10 August, 2017
BY: Luca Peruzzi Genoa

Italy wants to move its four Lockheed Martin F-35As allocated to an international training school in the USA to Europe, to support its operational preparations with the type, according to an audit office report published on 7 August. “The [Italian] administration has signaled its intention to renegotiate an agreement with the US government in order to recover the four aircraft destined to training and assign them to operational activities as soon as possible," the Court of Audit-produced document says. "Obtaining a critical mass of aircraft should allow the full employment of the system’s operational potential by the end of 2018." One of the reasons for the requested change is a previous Italian decision to slow the rate at which it will acquire the F-35. This restructuring reduced from 29 to 22 the number of aircraft to be funded until 2021 – 17 conventional take-off and landing F-35As, and five B-model short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) examples.

The report indicates that Italy's defense ministry has now authorized contracts with Lockheed and F135 engine manufacturer Pratt & Whitney for 10 F-35As and 2 F-35Bs, through the program's low-rate initial production (LRIP) batches 6 to 10. It has halved the planned number of aircraft included in LRIP 10 to two, after securing an agreement to move the others to LRIP 11 without penalty. In 2012 Italy reduced the size of its total planned F-35 order from 131 aircraft to 90. A memorandum of understanding signed with the USA covering LRIP batches 12 to 14 will deliver a further 8 A-model aircraft for its air force and nine STOVL jets for the navy. Rome had spent €3.5 billion ($4.1 billion) on the F-35 program by the end of last year, covering its system development and demonstration phase, aircraft procurements and investment in a final assembly and check-out line and maintenance, a repair and overhaul and upgrade facility at Cameri air base, and other base infrastructure costs.

Flight Fleets Analyzer records the Italian air force as having received eight of its aircraft so far, with another example and the navy's first F-35B to follow before the end of this year. The report says Italian companies had secured contracts worth €2.3 billion linked to the F-35 program by the end of 2016, with Leonardo's share worth €1.8 billion. Industry participation has been limited by procurement delays, as well as a "best value" policy applied while allocating international work share and US non-disclosure policies, it notes.

[spazsinbad]

Another report with lots of extra detail especially the last paragraph below.

Italy's audit court gives F-35 cautious approval
10 Aug 2017 Tom Kington

"ROME — Italy’s audit court has given measured approval to the F-35 program, claiming in a detailed new report that Italy needs to be on board despite price hikes, delays and the country’s currently low workshare.

Any moves to reduce Italy’s purchase of 90 aircraft, given the “notable” price rise of the aircraft, would deprive Italy of access to vital technology “not currently available in the country” and risk cutting work at the country’s F-35 final assembly and maintenance line, the report argues.

Looking at the bottom line, the court said that Italy had invested 3.5 billion in the program to the end of 2016 and another 600 million euros this year — so much money it cannot afford to pull out now....

...The court, which monitors Italy’s government spending, warned that the 2012 decision to cut Italy’s F-35 order from 131 to 90 aircraft may have saved 5.4 billion euros but cost 3.1 billion euros in lost contracts, particularly the construction of wingboxes by Italian defense giant Leonardo, which fell from 1,215 sets to 835 sets....

...Italy’s deal with the U.S. to offer Cameri as a heavy maintenance base for Europe will offer the base a future after planes are assembled, but its future success was put in doubt by the exclusion of Italian firms from recent contract awards for maintenance, the report said.

“Currently, there is uncertainty over the competing role of the U.K. base at Marham, which has obtained, in order to ensure national sovereignty, maintenance and repair work for the U.K. fleet,” the report said.

That said, if new orders for aircraft in Europe arrive in the next five years, Cameri would be well placed to benefit, the judges added, although any drop, or even uncertainty over Italian orders, could weaken Cameri as it competes against other maintenance centers.

The court criticized the request made by Italy’s Parliament in 2012 to halve the amount of money that Italy is spending on the program. That had led to a slowdown in orders placed by Italy up to 2021 and a savings of 1.2 billion euros between 2015 and 2019.

Eight aircraft are due for delivery in 2017 compared to the 10 originally planned, while 22 will be delivered by 2021, down from 29, and spending on bases at Grottaglie and Decimomannu has been suspended, the report said.

But any savings will be temporary, given the overall number of aircraft on order has not changed, meaning there will be “no saving in the long term,” the report stated.

To cope with the slowdown of orders, Italy is planning to renegotiate its deal with the U.S. under which four of the Italian planes now delivered are involved in pilot training in the U.S.

Getting those planes back to join the few now flying in Italy would allow the Italian Air Force to achieve an operational number of aircraft by the end 2018, instead of the currently forecast 2021. “At the same time, Italian pilot training would take place in Italy,” the judges stated....

...The report refers to concerns over the transfer of sensitive data acquired by F-35 aircraft to the U.S. “By the end of 2017, there will be the implementation of a national filter (hardware and software produced by an Italian firm and placed under exclusively national control), which will allow the automatic blocking of messages and data where transmission is not wanted,” the report said. “To that national equipment there will be added, in 2018, a more general multinational solution, consisting of a software filter,” the report said."

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/08/ ... -approval/

[spazsinbad]

Strike planned at Italy F-35 assembly line
22 Apr 2018 Tom Kington

"ROME ― Workers at Italy’s F-35 assembly line have announced a strike next Tuesday to protest the widespread use of employment agency contractors at the site. Unions planning the one-day strike said 600 staff at Cameri Air Base — where Italy is performing F-35 final assembly work — are working on agency contracts, while only 270 are employed directly by Italian defense firm Leonardo, which runs the site. “There is no job security for staff,” said Sergio Busca a representative of the UILM union at the site. “Leonardo has long promised to hire them, but we are getting frustrated,” he added.

Owned by the Italian government and operated by state defense firm Leonardo in partnership with Lockheed Martin, Cameri has delivered nine F-35As to the Italian Air Force. Five are now flying from Italy’s Amendola Air Base and four are involved in in pilot training at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona....

...Italy is currently due to purchase 60 F-35As and 30 F-35Bs, while Cameri is also due to assemble 29 F-35As for the Royal Netherlands Air Force....

...“Leonardo has said the high number of agency staff is normal, but we should have work here for decades with the maintenance activity, so why not hire the staff, given their qualifications?” said Busca.

In a statement, Leonardo said it would start giving the staff full time positions this year. It put the number of agency staff at 520. The promise has not convinced workers at Cameri, who organized an overtime ban last Saturday as an initial protest, which Busca said was widely adhered to...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/industry/20 ... mbly-line/

[sunstersun]

Yo we don't need this right now...

We're trying to ramp up production. Don't **** this up please. Hire them full time, we're looking at least 3 + more European countries that would need Italy's production line.

[weasel1962]

The Italian assembly line at Cameri doesn't assemble for US production. I think only Dutch and Italian units at the moment so the impact, if any, is minimal.