JASDF may be in the market for more F-35s

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popcorn

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Unread post15 Nov 2013, 11:51

The F-35 would be well-positioned to capitalize should the JASDF decide to replace it's aging Eagles.. would they even bother requesting competing bids?

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... 5s-393015/
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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Unread post15 Nov 2013, 18:01

When they say the oldest F-15Js in the fleet, roughly how many aircraft are they talking about?
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Unread post15 Nov 2013, 22:51

cantaz wrote:When they say the oldest F-15Js in the fleet, roughly how many aircraft are they talking about?


No numbers were given. More related articles on the JASDF for context.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... on-377060/
http://www.janes.com/article/29978/japa ... e-fighters
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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Unread post16 Nov 2013, 16:30

The FG article seems to forget that even though the F-35 is a strike fighter, many of the original program partners intended to utilize it for air sovereignty missions. Japan's choice makes sense without resorting to claims about political ties.

I suppose with so many users operating the F-35 as a front line fighter, the 6 internal AMRAAM mod may hopefully be sooner than later. Did Japan ask for AAM-4 integration?
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Unread post18 Nov 2013, 14:44

cantaz wrote:The FG article seems to forget that even though the F-35 is a strike fighter, many of the original program partners intended to utilize it for air sovereignty missions. Japan's choice makes sense without resorting to claims about political ties.

I suppose with so many users operating the F-35 as a front line fighter, the 6 internal AMRAAM mod may hopefully be sooner than later. Did Japan ask for AAM-4 integration?


Well, many seem to mistake Strike Fighters to Attack Aircraft or Light Bombers, even though it simply means multi-role aircraft with more emphasis on ground attack than in basic fighter aircraft. Of course nowadays pretty much every fighter is multi-role to some degree. But compared to F-22, F-35 is really multi-role as it will have vastly superior sensors, weapons system and weapon compatibility for air to ground work. Of course it will also have extremely good air to air capabilities, mainly due to stealth, sensors and CNI system. Even US forces will use F-35 as the main platform for air to air work as it will be the fighter aircraft for USN and USMC. Only USAF has an aircraft designed for air to air work in F-22 and even those are in rather limited number. I'm pretty sure there will be rather strong push for 6 internal air to air missiles in the future after most prudent capabilities have been fielded. Of course other possible way would be having some aircraft in full VLO status with 4 internal missiles and some aircraft with internal and external weapons backing them up and mopping up any enemy survivors. They'd

I think AAM-4 would likely be too big for internal carry in F-35 as it has quite a bit larger wing/fin span than AMRAAM. Of course with modifications, it might fit but that would probably be prohibitively expensive. External carry could probably be used, but that would be expensive too for rather unique capability for small number of missiles as Japan is likely not going to export them for other F-35 users. Of course they have done so with F-15J, so that might not be out of question either. Of course external carry of such missiles would worsen the RCS noticeably, but still would mostly likely be better than any non-5th generation fighter as such missiles have quite low RCS from most directions.
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Unread post14 Jan 2014, 07:36

Japan plans to purchase more F-35s for the defense of Diaoyutai Staff Reporter 14 Jan 2014
"Facing the expanding Chinese air power over the East China Sea, the Japanese defense ministry plans to purchase a total number of 42 Lockheed Martin F-35 fighters from the United States to defend the disputed Diaoyutai islands (called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China), according to the Tokyo-based business daily Nikkei.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) decided to purchase the fifth generation stealth fighters to replace its older F-4 Phantom II fighters. In addition to 60 F-4 fighters, the JASDF also operates 200 F-15J and 90 F-2 fighters, the paper said.

The new F-35 fighters are likely to coordinate with F-2s in potential missions to attack the naval and ground forces of the People's Liberation Army, while the F-15J would take care of the Chinese fighters in the sky.

The Japanese defense ministry is also considering upgrading the F-15J fighters under its Mid-term Defense Program. Around 100 of the aircraft's radar systems are not able to be modified, and Tokyo plans to purchase additional F-35s to replace them. This will eventually allow Japan to have at least 142 F-35 stealth fighters. However, the defense ministry will first have to discuss its plans with the finance ministry as the price of a single F-35 can be as high as US$150 million.

Under the new Mid-term Defense Program, the Japanese defense ministry also discussed the possibility of designing or purchasing fighters which can be used to succeed F-2 multirole fighters. The Nikkei reported that Japan is likely to design this new fighter with other nation in a similar way to the United States and its F-35. Meanwhile, the Tokyo-based Kyodo News said that Japan will begin the purchase of its first six F-35 fighters from the United States as early as this March.

For the next five years, Japan will continue its purchase of F-35s and eventually increase the number to 42. In addition to introducing advanced fighters from the United States, the Japanese defense ministry also confirmed that it will spend US$190,000 to modify its three Osumi-class tank landing ships. After the modification, assault amphibious vehicles such as the AAV7 and new aircraft like MV-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft can both be launched from those ships for amphibious warfare over the disputed islands in the East China Sea.

"We can never overlook China's repeated entries into our territorial waters. In addition to diplomatic efforts, we will cooperate with the Coast Guard to securely defend our territory and waters around the Senkaku islands," said Itsunori Onodera, the Japanese defense minister, during his inspection of the new year exercise held by the airborne troops of the Japan Ground Self-Defense Force at Narashino in Chiba prefecture on Jan. 12."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... ainCatID=0
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Unread post14 Jan 2014, 08:08

Izumo could serve as Japan's command center in Diaoyutai conflict 14 Jan 2014 Staff Reporter
"The Izumo, Japan's new helicopter carrier, could be used as a command center to coordinate the ground, air and maritime forces of the nation in a potential conflict with China over the disputed Diaoyutai islands (called Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China) in the East China Sea, reports the Tokyo-based Kyodo News.

In an article for the paper, Makoto Yamasaki, a retired vice admiral of the Japan Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF), stressed that the primary mission of the Izumo is to serve as a flagship with intelligence command capabilities. Equipped with an electronic conference room that can give commands to individual units and an advanced communications system, Japanese military magazine Ships of the World indicated that the Izumo is capable of strengthening the integrated operations of Japan's military as a frontline headquarters.

Military experts said that the Japan Air Self-Defense Force's E-767, E-2C early warning aircraft, F-15J fighters, the JMSDF's P-3C patrol aircraft, destroyers, as well as the Ground Self-Defense Force's anti-aircraft and anti-ship units can all be coordinated on the battlefield once this 248-meter-long vessel with a standard displacement of 19,500 tonnes becomes a frontline HQ.

The Kyodo News also reported that the Izumo may be redesigned as an aircraft carrier when the F-35 fighters begin to arrive in Japan. The Japanese defense ministry, meanwhile, plans to purchase 17 MV-22 Ospreys from the United States to operate from the flight deck of the Izumo by 2018....

...Japan's ground and maritime forces have learned valuable lessons about fighting amphibious warfare through joint exercises with the United States Navy and Marine Corps...."

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subc ... ainCatID=0
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Unread post17 Jan 2014, 03:00

Well, Japan didn't agree to set up a production line in Japan for just 42 F-35's. Honestly, I am surprised they have committed to more Lightning's by now...
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Unread post04 Feb 2014, 21:27

Prices for first lot F-35s destined for Japan rising, future F-35 aircraft built in Japan could be unaffordable:

Future of F-35 Unclear as Costs Mount in Japan
By PAUL KALLENDER-UMEZU
Tuesday Feb 4, 2014


Two years after Japan agreed to buy F-35 joint strike fighters to replace its 1960s-era F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, the government has yet to give more than the vaguest hints about its future fighter replacement plans as the Defense Ministry struggles with a rising tide of costs and difficulties with the troubled stealth fighter program......"

"Under a June 2013 foreign military sales agreement with the US, Japan committed to purchase the first four F-35As at ¥10.2 billion per aircraft, which was about US $124 million each under the exchange rate at the time of ¥82 to the dollar. The price was already at a premium to the ¥9.9 billion originally agreed, due to the then-continuing development and testing difficulties the F-35 program was facing.

Since then, prices have continued to climb, especially with the yen's devaluation, which began last spring and has seen the value fluctuate between ¥95 and ¥105 to the dollar. The price of the first two fighters to be purchased for fiscal 2013 climbed to ¥29.9 billion, and the cost for the next four for fiscal 2014 has risen to ¥63.8 billion, representing a price of nearly ¥16 billion per fighter, Kiyotani said.

Added to this are plant and tooling up costs of ¥83 billion for 2013 and ¥42.4 billion for 2014 as Japanese companies Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Electric and IHI establish assembly and production lines.

Sources here have privately begun to refer to the F-35 deal as a "bottakuri bar," referring to establishments that lure customers of differing degrees of naivety and force them to pay exorbitant bills through a range of excess charges for items not mentioned explicitly on the menu....."

"Pointing out that locally produced versions of US kit generally cost double their US prices -- for example, Kawasaki Heavy Industry's version of the MCH-101 helicopter costs about US $60 million a unit compared to $30 million for the US price -- Kiyotani said the F-35's costs could climb to more than ¥300 billion a fighter....."

Source: http://mobile.defensenews.com/article/302040018
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Unread post05 Feb 2014, 06:09

maus92 wrote:Prices for first lot F-35s destined for Japan rising, future F-35 aircraft built in Japan could be unaffordable:

Future of F-35 Unclear as Costs Mount in Japan
By PAUL KALLENDER-UMEZU
Tuesday Feb 4, 2014


Two years after Japan agreed to buy F-35 joint strike fighters to replace its 1960s-era F-4EJ Kai Phantoms, the government has yet to give more than the vaguest hints about its future fighter replacement plans as the Defense Ministry struggles with a rising tide of costs and difficulties with the troubled stealth fighter program......"

"Under a June 2013 foreign military sales agreement with the US, Japan committed to purchase the first four F-35As at ¥10.2 billion per aircraft, which was about US $124 million each under the exchange rate at the time of ¥82 to the dollar. The price was already at a premium to the ¥9.9 billion originally agreed, due to the then-continuing development and testing difficulties the F-35 program was facing.

Since then, prices have continued to climb, especially with the yen's devaluation, which began last spring and has seen the value fluctuate between ¥95 and ¥105 to the dollar. The price of the first two fighters to be purchased for fiscal 2013 climbed to ¥29.9 billion, and the cost for the next four for fiscal 2014 has risen to ¥63.8 billion, representing a price of nearly ¥16 billion per fighter, Kiyotani said.

Added to this are plant and tooling up costs of ¥83 billion for 2013 and ¥42.4 billion for 2014 as Japanese companies Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Mitsubishi Electric and IHI establish assembly and production lines.

Sources here have privately begun to refer to the F-35 deal as a "bottakuri bar," referring to establishments that lure customers of differing degrees of naivety and force them to pay exorbitant bills through a range of excess charges for items not mentioned explicitly on the menu....."

"Pointing out that locally produced versions of US kit generally cost double their US prices -- for example, Kawasaki Heavy Industry's version of the MCH-101 helicopter costs about US $60 million a unit compared to $30 million for the US price -- Kiyotani said the F-35's costs could climb to more than ¥300 billion a fighter....."

Source: http://mobile.defensenews.com/article/302040018



Will Japan has little choice. It can produce F-35's locally and pay double the price or purchase them directly from the Fort Worth Line. Doesn't matter to the JSF Program. :roll:
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Unread post05 Feb 2014, 08:59

The Japanese are obviously willing to pay a premium to maximize local industry participation. Their choice.
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Unread post06 Feb 2014, 04:41

popcorn wrote:The Japanese are obviously willing to pay a premium to maximize local industry participation. Their choice.



Yeah, I find the whole issue well laughable! :roll:
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Unread post19 Jun 2014, 19:07

New policies in Japan may allow Australian/Japanese co-operation in building new stealthy submarines for Australia (yet to be decided/arranged). The competition for maintenance of F-35s everywhere is getting a bit silly - everyone seems to want such a base - TBD....

Defense Ministry revamps equipment procurement strategy
19 Jun 2014 JIJI

"The Defense Ministry adopted a new strategy Thursday to reform the procurement process for defense equipment, replacing a 44-year-old policy that focused on domestic development.

The new strategy seeks to promote joint development of defense equipment and technologies with other countries to boost the international competitiveness of Japan’s defense industry and boost the economy.

“It is important for Japan to improve its defense equipment and technologies so as not to be left behind,” Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said at a meeting.

The shift in focus comes at a time when cutting-edge defense equipment, such as stealth fighters, is mostly being developed under joint projects involving multiple countries....

...The strategy also included setting up an Asia-Pacific maintenance base in Japan for the F-35 stealth jet, which is due to become the next mainstay fighter of the Air Self-Defense Force.

The ministry plans to draw up a road map for developing and deploying defense items that are expected to become mainstay equipment 20 years from now, including drones."

Source: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... 6MklZB-8kI
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Unread post25 Jun 2014, 08:49

Misawa : Japan to deploy F-35 fighters at Misawa Air Base from FY 2017
25 Jun 2014 Kyodo News

"Japan will begin deploying the next-generation F-35 fighter jets at its Misawa Air Base in Aomori Prefecture from fiscal 2017, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Wednesday.

"We will coordinate with the U.S. side so local residents will not have to feel concerned," Onodera told Aomori Gov. Shingo Mimura, pledging efforts so that safety will be ensured, in a meeting in the city of Aomori.

Mimura requested Onodera take measures to prevent accidents or other incidents involving the aircraft that could endanger the public.

About 20 F-35 jets will be deployed at the Air Self-Defense Force's Misawa base, the defense chief told reporters after the meeting...."

Source: http://www.4-traders.com/MISAWA--CO-LTD ... -18637764/
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Unread post09 Jul 2014, 16:36

Japan may buy additional F-35 jets if price falls, Onodera says
KYODO
JUL 9, 2014

FORT WORTH, TEXAS – Japan may purchase additional F-35 fighter jets if their procurement costs fall, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Tuesday after visiting a Lockheed Martin Corp. assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.

“If the unit price falls, it may be important to reconsider the number of fighters (Japan will buy),” said Onodera, who held talks with senior officials from Lockheed Martin at the factory.

As the successor to the aging F-4 Phantom operated by the Air Self-Defense Force, the F-35 has advanced stealth capabilities and can escape radar detection. The ASDF currently has 42 of them on order.

The Defense Ministry and the ASDF also need to replace roughly half of the 200 or so aging F-15 fighter jets currently in operation, and Onodera’s remarks suggest that the government might favor the F-35 as a replacement.

A five-year defense program, in operation through fiscal 2018, says Japan will “consider replacing those F-15s that do not get refurbished with more advanced fighters.”

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/0 ... 71hCGt5mSN
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