Pressure increases on [Canada] to stay or leave F-35 program

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spazsinbad

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Unread post16 Jun 2020, 23:08

Canadian CF-18 upgrade package OK’d by US :mrgreen: [is this lipstick on a SUPER pig?] :devil:
16 Jun 2020 Aaron Mehta

"WASHINGTON — The U.S. State Department has cleared Canada to purchase a package of upgrades for its fleet of CF-18 Super Hornets, including upgraded radars and weapons, intended to serve as a bridge between the legacy fleet and Canada’s future fighter. The package, which comes with an estimated price tag of $862.3 million, would fulfill the requirements for Canada’s “Hornet Extension Project Phase 2,” which was announced last year. The program seeks to upgrade the “sensors, weapons, survivability, security and mission support to maintain parity with evolving threats” for 36 of Canada’s Super Hornets, with initial delivery in 2023, according to a statement on the Canadian military’s website.

Canada has 80 CF-18s in inventory and is in the midst of a long attempt to replace the aging fighters with 88 newer designs — one of which has been marred with restarts and political challenges. The Phase 2 extension is designed to help bridge the capability gap until new jets come online.

Among the upgrades included in this potential package: 50 Sidewinder AIM-9X Block II tactical missiles; 38 APG-79(V)4 active electronically scanned array radars; 38 APG-79(V)4 AESA radar A1 kits; 46 F/A-18A wide-band RADOMEs; upgrades to the Advanced Distributed Combat Training System; and technical assistance to support the upgraded jets...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/global/the- ... okd-by-us/
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XanderCrews

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Unread post16 Jun 2020, 23:26

Think of the savings!! :roll:
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Corsair1963

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Unread post16 Jun 2020, 23:52

Interesting....upgrades include the APG-79 AESA Radar. :D
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magitsu

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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 08:45

Corsair1963 wrote:Interesting....upgrades include the APG-79 AESA Radar. :D


The same update USMC is going for. 98 is their amount (14 spares, Canada 2 spares in 38).

"AN/APG-79(V)4 is a scaled version of the AN/APG-79 AESA radar already fitted to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler, and shares 90% commonality for synergies in maintenance and support. The USMC will benefit from the same global sustainment and upgrade path already in place for the AN/APG-79."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/rayt ... aesa-radar

It'll be ugly to toss the radars after 5 years of full operational capability use. 9X, JSOW-C can at least be utilized after that.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 09:52

magitsu wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Interesting....upgrades include the APG-79 AESA Radar. :D


The same update USMC is going for. 98 is their amount (14 spares, Canada 2 spares in 38).

"AN/APG-79(V)4 is a scaled version of the AN/APG-79 AESA radar already fitted to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler, and shares 90% commonality for synergies in maintenance and support. The USMC will benefit from the same global sustainment and upgrade path already in place for the AN/APG-79."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/rayt ... aesa-radar

It'll be ugly to toss the radars after 5 years of full operational capability use. 9X, JSOW-C can at least be utilized after that.



Nice upgrade.....just sad the airframes are so old and tired.
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hornetfinn

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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 10:36

Corsair1963 wrote:
magitsu wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Interesting....upgrades include the APG-79 AESA Radar. :D


The same update USMC is going for. 98 is their amount (14 spares, Canada 2 spares in 38).

"AN/APG-79(V)4 is a scaled version of the AN/APG-79 AESA radar already fitted to the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler, and shares 90% commonality for synergies in maintenance and support. The USMC will benefit from the same global sustainment and upgrade path already in place for the AN/APG-79."
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/rayt ... aesa-radar

It'll be ugly to toss the radars after 5 years of full operational capability use. 9X, JSOW-C can at least be utilized after that.



Nice upgrade.....just sad the airframes are so old and tired.


Agree, it's a really nice upgrade. Too bad it wasn't available a decade or so ago. Then there would've been a lot more A-D Hornets around in good shape to be upgraded. Of course technology might not've been mature enough then and costs would've been higher then.
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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 15:01

By the time these upgrades are implemeted, the structural integrity of their Hornets will be the real issue. Then, they'll wonder why the accident rate is sky high. Sort of like how the USAF does every time another F-15C goes down.
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ricnunes

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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 21:45

Corsair1963 wrote:Nice upgrade.....just sad the airframes are so old and tired.


Yeap, this is a double edged sword.

At least this is 'better' than purchasing interim Super Hornets or than buying Gripens :roll:

On the other hand, with $862.3 million - which is what this upgrade will cost (in case we're talking about USD and not CAD) - Canada could have bought 11 F-35As instead. :x
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post17 Jun 2020, 23:13

:devil: :doh: :roll: :shock: 8) OOHH how sad the Canucks aren't going to upgrade their SUPER Hornets after all: [same story] :mrgreen: :roll:

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jessmo112

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Unread post18 Jun 2020, 03:20

Can we add up.
1. The cost of F-35 programs fees per year despite not buting the jet.

2. The cost of the Australian F-18 purchase

3. The cost of upgrading the Purchase.

4. The cost of a life exstension.

Compared to the original F-35 buy?
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Corsair1963

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Unread post18 Jun 2020, 03:45

jessmo112 wrote:Can we add up.
1. The cost of F-35 programs fees per year despite not buting the jet.

2. The cost of the Australian F-18 purchase

3. The cost of upgrading the Purchase.

4. The cost of a life exstension.

Compared to the original F-35 buy?


Doesn't sound like Justin Trudeau's legacy is going to fair very well long-term??? :?
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weasel1962

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Unread post19 Jun 2020, 02:13

jessmo112 wrote:Can we add up.
1. The cost of F-35 programs fees per year despite not buting the jet.

2. The cost of the Australian F-18 purchase

3. The cost of upgrading the Purchase.

4. The cost of a life exstension.

Compared to the original F-35 buy?


Item 1: - ~US$541 million from 1997. $54 million in 2019. $70m in 2020.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... -into-f-3/

Item 2: - ~C$300m (~US$220m)

Item 2-4: Total cost including item 2 = C$1.15billion (upper limit) or US$845m.

Source in link below.
https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/f ... ort_EN.pdf

The industrial benefits per the globe news link is ~C$1.8b (US$1.3b). If Canada had bought the F-35 from 2010 as originally planned, that would have been at LRIP prices. At lot 5 prices, 65 F-35As would have cost US$14+ billion. In today's prices, 65 would cost US$5+ billion.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post20 Jun 2020, 18:32

weasel1962 wrote:
jessmo112 wrote:Can we add up.
1. The cost of F-35 programs fees per year despite not buting the jet.

2. The cost of the Australian F-18 purchase

3. The cost of upgrading the Purchase.

4. The cost of a life exstension.

Compared to the original F-35 buy?


Item 1: - ~US$541 million from 1997. $54 million in 2019. $70m in 2020.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... -into-f-3/

Item 2: - ~C$300m (~US$220m)

Item 2-4: Total cost including item 2 = C$1.15billion (upper limit) or US$845m.

Source in link below.
https://www.pbo-dpb.gc.ca/web/default/f ... ort_EN.pdf

The industrial benefits per the globe news link is ~C$1.8b (US$1.3b). If Canada had bought the F-35 from 2010 as originally planned, that would have been at LRIP prices. At lot 5 prices, 65 F-35As would have cost US$14+ billion. In today's prices, 65 would cost US$5+ billion.



The total procurement for 65 F-35 was 8.9 billion in 2012 according to Canada and KPMG
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Jun 2020, 23:12

Does anyone here know if the JSOW C that Canada will adquire in this package is the 'baseline' C or instead the C-1 variant?
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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Unread post22 Jun 2020, 00:42

Baseline C per dsca announcement. A 20 buy suggests for fit and operational testing. Baseline can be modified to block III if required.
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