Dutch MoD choose definitely for F-35

[bigjku]

37 aircraft, that's no longer an air force..

Honestly that is why the F-35 makes sense here. They can operate 37 to retain skills and a cadre of pilots and if the international situation changes the line will be open long enough they can buy and operate more later.

That is likely not the case with the other Western programs.

[thenonflyingdutchman]

37 aircraft, that's no longer an air force..

Honestly that is why the F-35 makes sense here. They can operate 37 to retain skills and a cadre of pilots and if the international situation changes the line will be open long enough they can buy and operate more later.

That is likely not the case with the other Western programs.

That's true. Although i don't see it as likely to happen, when i think of our politicians.

I'm not against the F-35, my problem with this buy is that we have to keep flying our F-16's until 2023 or so. These aircraft are in a very poor state already and will be obsolete in the near future if they are not already so.

I would have bought two sqaudrons of Dassault Rafale ten years ago, fly a mixed fleet of F16/Rafale and then gradually replace three or four F-16's with one F-35. And from 2025/2030 on replace Rafale with F-35's.

[cantaz]

I would have bought two sqaudrons of Dassault Rafale ten years ago, fly a mixed fleet of F16/Rafale and then gradually replace three or four F-16's with one F-35. And from 2025/2030 on replace Rafale with F-35's.

Using the Rafale as a transition fighter for 20 years is very expensive and you're doing twice the amount of transition work in that period as well. If the Dutch bought Rafales a decade ago, they would've gone whole-sale into replacing the F-16 with them and wouldn't be looking at the F-35 right now.

[neptune]

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... rs-390647/

Netherlands cuts F-35 fleet plan to 37 fighters; plus

Netherlands cuts F-35 fleet plan to 37 fighters
By: Craig Hoyle London

The Netherlands’ government has confirmed the selection of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to replace the nation’s aged F-16s, but its purchase is likely to be for fewer than half of the number of aircraft previously anticipated.

Included as part of a budget announcement made on 17 September, the decision will lead to the introduction of the nation’s first frontline examples at Volkel air base from 2019.

“The replacement will be carried out entirely within the previously reserved investment budget of €4.5 billion [$6 billion] and the current operating budget for the F-16, which amounts to €270 million per year,” the government says. “Based on the current insights, the available financial room is sufficient for the purchase of 37 aircraft.

“The defence organisation will from now on base its plans on that number, and will inform its partners in the F-35 programme accordingly.”

Previous plans had called for the Royal Netherlands Air Force to eventually receive up to 85 Joint Strike Fighters, but this total has for some time exceeded the size of its now-dwindling F-16 inventory. In its announcement, the government says a further seven of the current type will be withdrawn in 2014, cutting the fleet size to 61 aircraft, with three squadrons. The type will leave Dutch use in the mid-2020s.

Citing the need for “careful consideration and astute choices” during a time of budget pressure, the government notes: “Opting for a modest number of the best aircraft attests to a sense of reality.” The F-35 was selected on “operational, financial and economic grounds”, and “is also the most future-proof option”, it adds.

Noting that the unit price for its conventional take-off and landing F-35As is not yet known, it comments: “Should any unexpected major changes occur in terms of product, time or money, the project will be reviewed within the given financial parameters, if those changes exceed the margins of the project budget.”

However, the statement notes: “If, within the given financial parameters, room is created in the coming years to purchase more aircraft, the defence organisation will do so. This may be the case if the [10%] contingency reserve is not used in full and if the price per unit of the F-35 turns out to be lower than is currently expected.”

The air force should be able to manage effectively with its more capable F-35s, says the government, which is also eyeing potential savings to be made through “international co-operation in areas such as training, sustainment and deployment”. A proposed bilateral quick reaction alert agreement already being discussed with Belgium would also reduce the impact of maintaining such an air policing capability in both nations, it adds.

..

The positive decision should also clear the way for two test aircraft already delivered to support initial operational test and evaluation activities to be returned to flight status. The pair were grounded earlier this year, pending the outcome of the formal selection decision.

.

[joost]

I told you.... And 37+ will be the maximum for now, no money for follow on orders or so, but still: we will get the F-35! For the better observers: all partners already ordered, or reconsidered and ordered the F-35, despite the doom messages of the nah sayers (the so called domino effect which will just not start). Only ones to follow are the Danes and the Canadians...and guess what: they will order them as well... read my lips! Just like Turkey, UK, Italy, Norway, the Netherlands, USMC, USAF and USN.

[spazsinbad]

Oh dear. Are the Australians not buying any? And What About the Spanish and Singaporeans and Israelis and Japanese? There is a world far from the US and Europa. The South Koreans may get some eventually....

LM FAST FACTS 09 Sep 2013

"...Planned Quantities*
USAF 1,763 F-35As
USN 260 F-35Cs
USMC 340 F-35Bs/80 F-35Cs
U.K. RAF/RN 138 F-35Bs
Italy 60 F-35As/30 F-35Bs
Netherlands 85 F-35As
Turkey 100 F-35As
Australia 100 F-35As
Norway 52 F-35As
Denmark 30 F-35As
Canada 65 F-35As
Israel 19 F-35As
Japan 42 F-35As
*Based on current programs of record."

https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/down ... _facts.pdf (165Kb)
______________

May we add Belgium to the list of possibles? Also here: http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... 672#259672

Exclusive: Belgium considers Lockheed F-35 to replace F-16s - source 17 Sep 2013 Andrea Shalal-Esa

"(Reuters) - U.S. government officials have briefed the Belgian government about the capabilities of the Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-35 fighter jet, as Brussels prepares to replace its aging fleet of 60 F-16s, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters on Tuesday.

The source, who was not authorised to speak publicly, said Belgium was considering buying 35 to 55 of the new radar-evading F-35 jets. No decisions are expected until late 2014 at the earliest after next year's elections in Belgium....

...Lockheed's F-35 programme manager, Lorraine Martin, declined comment, saying that foreign military sales are handled by the U.S. government.

U.S. defence officials had no immediate comment...."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/09/1 ... 4820130917

[cantaz]

Only ones to follow are the Danes and the Canadians...and guess what: they will order them as well... read my lips!

I certainly hope your optimism turns out to be correct.

[joost]

Only ones to follow are the Danes and the Canadians...and guess what: they will order them as well... read my lips!

I certainly hope your optimism turns out to be correct.

It will! My optimism won't disappoint you indeed I forgot to mention the Australians, sorry about that! The Israelis and Japanese are orders outside of the partnership (FMS), so that is why I didn't mention it.

[spazsinbad]

Noworriescobber...

Dutch to buy JSF fighter jets in 4.5-bn-euro deal 17 Sep 2013

"The Netherlands will buy 37 new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) from US-based Lockheed Martin in a deal worth 4.5 billion euros ($6 billion) to replace its ageing fleet of F-16s by 2019, the country's defence minister said Tuesday.

Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert announced the long-debated purchase in a letter to parliament at the presentation of the government's 2014 budget at the Lower House's official opening in The Hague.

"In view of our current planning, the F-35 (also known as the Joint Strike Fighter) will go into service by 2019," operating from two Dutch air force bases, the minister said.

"After evaluating competitors in 2001 and 2008 and with updated relevant data in 2013, the cabinet has decided, based on operational and financial considerations, to choose the F-35 as the new fighter plane for the Dutch armed forces," she said.

The choice had been widely expected, with the Netherlands closely involved as one of the contributing countries to the JSF's development.

As early as 1997, the JSF has been flagged as the preferential candidate to replace the Dutch fleet of F-16s because of its stealth features, which make it almost invisible to radar.

In 2002, the Netherlands and eight other countries joined the fighter's development phase.

But a finalised Dutch purchase had been rejected in parliament, mainly by the centre-left Labour Party (PvdA) while in opposition.

However, that decision changed after Labour formed a majority coalition in the Lower House with Prime Minister Mark Rutte's Liberal party (VVD) after last September's elections."

http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/dutch-n ... 74180.html

[discofishing]

I would consider a signed contract "formal". Anything else would be informal.

[maus92]

deleted

[maus92]

Oh dear. Are the Australians not buying any? And What About the Spanish and Singaporeans and Israelis and Japanese? There is a world far from the US and Europa. The South Koreans may get some eventually....

LM FAST FACTS 09 Sep 2013

"...Planned Quantities*
USAF 1,763 F-35As
USN 260 F-35Cs
USMC 340 F-35Bs/80 F-35Cs
U.K. RAF/RN 138 F-35Bs
Italy 60 F-35As/30 F-35Bs
Netherlands 85 F-35As
Turkey 100 F-35As
Australia 100 F-35As
Norway 52 F-35As
Denmark 30 F-35As
Canada 65 F-35As
Israel 19 F-35As
Japan 42 F-35As
*Based on current programs of record."

https://www.f35.com/assets/uploads/down ... _facts.pdf (165Kb)
______________

Well, if the Dutch are any example, you'd have to adjust each buy to 44% of planned quantities.... (37/85 = 44%)

[spazsinbad]

Why would the Dutch be an example for heavens sake? There are plenty of articles now describing the intentions of Australia for example as well as the USofA protecting the F-35 buy. Europe have bad economies. Shirley when / if their economies improve they may buy more is the implication I see. But hey I'm the glass half full viewer. Programs of Record are for a reason and we look forward to LM adjusting such a record in the next 'Fast Facts' edition.

[lookieloo]

Why would the Dutch be an example for heavens sake? There are plenty of articles now describing the intentions of Australia for example as well as the USofA protecting the F-35 buy. Europe have bad economies. Shirley when / if their economies improve they may buy more is the implication I see. But hey I'm the glass half full viewer. Programs of Record are for a reason and we look forward to LM adjusting such a record in the next 'Fast Facts' edition.

At this point in the program, a half-order is better than a delay when it comes to the rather small parade-ground purchases... and we'll just have to see what the picture is years from now when the Dutch get their 37th copy.

[popcorn]

I'm not unduly worried about reduced order sizes by Partner countries. Defense spending is cyclical and if security considerations warrant, money will be found to buy more jets. Like legacy jets before it, the F-35 manufacturing line is likely to stay busy long after it's envisaged production run.