F-35 Lightning II vs Dassault Rafale

marsavian · by **marsavian** » 05 Dec 2019, 10:37

Rafales must fly in with Meteor air-to-air missiles, India tells France

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/rafale ... 375495.cms

NEW DELHI: India has asked France to arm the first four Rafale fighters with the top-notch Meteor air-to-air missiles, which, with a strike range of 120 to 150-km, can outgun any missile that can be unleashed by Pakistani or Chinese jets. The first Rafale fighters will touch down at the Ambala airbase in May next year.

The request for at least 8-10 Meteor beyond visual range (BVR) missiles to be delivered with the four Rafale jets was conveyed to France during defence minister Rajnath Singh’s visit to the country to formally accept the first fighter at Merignac in the Bordeaux region on October 8.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 05 Dec 2019, 11:17

The Rafales are going to be of little help to India. As China already has the J-20 Stealth Fighter in service. With the J-31 not far behind...

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 06 Dec 2019, 16:48

Corsair1963 wrote:The Rafales are going to be of little help to India. As China already has the J-20 Stealth Fighter in service. With the J-31 not far behind...

Same could be said of any aircraft that wins their contest though, correct?

Even the SU-30MKI is going to be of little use vs. the J-20, at least according to that logic....

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 25 Dec 2019, 22:12

OLDie But Goldie Four Page PDF about RAFALE aboard CdeG from Combat Aircraft Magazine June 2019 attached below.

Photo: "A Rafale M comes in for landing, carrying a RECO-NG pod on the centreline and live MICA infra-red missiles on the wingtips."

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 25 Dec 2019, 23:46

Can't wait to see USN and/or USMC F-35C's cross decking on the Charles de Gaulle..... :wink:

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 25 Dec 2019, 23:49

mixelflick wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:The Rafales are going to be of little help to India. As China already has the J-20 Stealth Fighter in service. With the J-31 not far behind...

Same could be said of any aircraft that wins their contest though, correct?

Even the SU-30MKI is going to be of little use vs. the J-20, at least according to that logic....

Yes, the whole MMRCA 2.0 is a complete waste.....Hell, by time the first aircraft comes off an Indian Production Line. The world will see over 1000 Stealth Fighters in the market place. With many more behind them.

vilters · by **vilters** » 28 Dec 2019, 01:21

Attrition.

China has few J-20 while Mig and SU can be bought in huge numbers for far less money.

Just saturate the sky's till they run out of J-20"s.

Simple.

or ? ?
Get their J-20 while they are on the ground. (less dangerous too)

There is NO rule that says you have to fight a fighter in the air. :devil:

talkitron · by **talkitron** » 28 Dec 2019, 02:42

Corsair1963 wrote:Yes, the whole MMRCA 2.0 is a complete waste.....Hell, by time the first aircraft comes off an Indian Production Line. The world will see over 1000 Stealth Fighters in the market place. With many more behind them.

You could say the same about the massive expenditure on Super Hornet Block III, not to mention planned lower volume buys of Rafale by France and Typhoon by Germany (to replace trance 1 Typhoons and maybe later Tornado ECR) and possibly Spain. Then there is the planned 80 F-15EXs. Israel also is talking about buying more F-15s.

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 28 Dec 2019, 03:19

vilters wrote:Attrition.

China has few J-20 while Mig and SU can be bought in huge numbers for far less money.

Just saturate the sky's till they run out of J-20"s.

Simple.

LoL, and you'll play attrition with the pilots?? (you are aware that those J-20, Mig and SU don't fly by themselves, right?)

Are you aware how long does it takes to fully train a fighter pilot and how much does a fighter pilot training cost??
I'm sure that you don't know or else you wouldn't be suggesting about wasting/sacrificing pilots like they were infantry soldiers of WWI :roll:

vilters wrote:or ? ?
Get their J-20 while they are on the ground. (less dangerous too)

There is NO rule that says you have to fight a fighter in the air.

And the same also plays in favor of the J-20 (and much better so).
Get all the SUs and Migs and/or other 4th gen fighter aircraft while still on the ground (using stealthy J-20 for this).

Ever heard about EW (Early-Warning) Radars, Air Defense Systems, etc...??
All these kind of assets can detect incoming enemy fighters and spoil a surprise attack specially if the incoming strike package is composed by 4th gen non-stealth fighter aircraft.

On the other hand 5th gen stealth fighter aircraft can stay hidden from such system for much longer and as such 5th gen stealth fighter aircraft like the J-20 have a better chance to execute surprise attacks such as destroying enemy aircraft still on the ground compared to ANY 4th gen fighter aircraft.

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 28 Dec 2019, 03:27

talkitron wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:Yes, the whole MMRCA 2.0 is a complete waste.....Hell, by time the first aircraft comes off an Indian Production Line. The world will see over 1000 Stealth Fighters in the market place. With many more behind them.

You could say the same about the massive expenditure on Super Hornet Block III, not to mention planned lower volume buys of Rafale by France and Typhoon by Germany (to replace trance 1 Typhoons and maybe later Tornado ECR) and possibly Spain. Then there is the planned 80 F-15EXs. Israel also is talking about buying more F-15s.

Common! There's actually only one reason why there's a massive expenditure on Super Hornet Block III and also Rafale, Typhoon and F-15EX which is:
- To keep certain aerospace companies open in the fighter aircraft market (Boeing in the case of the Super Hornet and F-15, Dassault in the Rafale case and Airbus in the Typhoon case).

So yes, from a military, tactical and strategical standpoint it doesn't make sense to manufacture new Super Hornets, F-15s, Rafales and Typhoon unless there's an intention so sell/export these fighter for countries that aren't allowed to purchase 5th gen fighter aircraft like the F-35.

vilters · by **vilters** » 28 Dec 2019, 11:54

@ rictunes

If, and I say "if" you realy want to destroy your ennemy's fleet you do it on the ground.
You know where the airbases are.

Put a cordon of snipers around their airbases.
If they can not hit huge tagets as airplanes at 3 miles?
Each sniper can take out at least 3-5 and recover to safety.

As I wrote above : There is NO rule that says you have to fight fighter airplanes in the air.

I would NOT launch a single pilot to defeat an ennemy airplane.

As the F-35 mission profile clearly shows: Future wars are air to ground affairs and A2A is purely for emergency self defence.

Some sipers around their airfields and some drones for the left-overs. (after hammering all their hard shalters with cruise missiles)

The time to launch manned airplanes against ennemy fighters is behind us.

lbk000 · by **lbk000** » 28 Dec 2019, 17:33

How does one summon mass snipers on an airfield praytell?

ricnunes · by **ricnunes** » 29 Dec 2019, 01:34

lbk000 wrote:How does one summon mass snipers on an airfield praytell?

With a magician of course!
You just need to summon a magician and have him pulling out snipers, fighter pilots and 4th gen fighter aircraft out of his hat (instead of rabbits). And then have the magician to saw in half each of the snipers, fighter pilots and 4th gen fighter aircraft previously pulled out from the hat and then for each of them you'll get two instead! :roll:

talkitron · by **talkitron** » 29 Dec 2019, 03:18

ricnunes wrote:- To keep certain aerospace companies open in the fighter aircraft market (Boeing in the case of the Super Hornet and F-15, Dassault in the Rafale case and Airbus in the Typhoon case).

Statements of the US Navy are quite supportive of new Super Hornets. The Navy does not seem to be in love with F-35C. I do agree that jobs in St Louis and potential exports make this an easy political sell in Congress.

notkent · by **notkent** » 29 Dec 2019, 15:06

vilters wrote:@ rictunes

Put a cordon of snipers around their airbases.
If they can not hit huge tagets as airplanes at 3 miles?
Each sniper can take out at least 3-5 and recover to safety.
.

Did not know that airbase commanders are that clueless. Once a single plane is taken out by a sniper they are just going to keep launching them?

And if you are talking about doing this in China how do the snipers get there in the first place and then just walk away to safety?