Operational Performace Comparison: Viper, Beagle, and Stubby

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4547
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post19 Jan 2019, 06:18

Only one VAB and it is a calculation hog. Double linear interpolation to take a 17X10 table and explode it to a 271X81 table for three difference parameters.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8400
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post19 Jan 2019, 07:51

lol.. VBA, not VAB... my bad (damn you fingers). :doh:
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

eloise

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1732
  • Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 16:05

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 01:33

@Spurt: How many missile can F-15 carry before it has lower top speed and longer acceleration time than F-35?
Can a fully loaded F-15X with 16-22 AIM-120 catch a F-35?
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8400
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 01:57

Don't forget to add range into the question. If the F-15X is in full AB and the F-35 is not then how long will the AB fuel last?

How is it supposed to detect the F-35 at that range?
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline
User avatar

element1loop

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1404
  • Joined: 31 Dec 2015, 05:35
  • Location: Australia

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 03:24

SpudmanWP wrote:Don't forget to add range into the question. If the F-15X is in full AB and the F-35 is not then how long will the AB fuel last? How is it supposed to detect the F-35 at that range?


It's reasonable to presume a networked F-15X in a modern force would be cued to the approximate location and vector of the F-35. Same is true of an F-35 though, and then some, and who could resist a snap J-turn to fire a slammer (or four) at the F-15X? The F-35 is either going to get a kill or make the F-15X turn and run. While the F-35A would be unlikely to need to run away from an F-15X (when a 4th gen meets a 5th gen 'n all). Then again, neither would be alone either.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
Offline

eloise

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1732
  • Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 16:05

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 07:28

SpudmanWP wrote:How is it supposed to detect the F-35 at that range?

Iam thinking F-15 can use MSDN and SACM to intercept F-35's missiles, then chase down the F-35 without wweapon
Online

SpudmanWP

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 8400
  • Joined: 12 Oct 2006, 19:18
  • Location: California

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 08:55

SACM never claimed anti-missile capability and radar is useless vs the F-35 at anything longer than a few dozen miles.
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
Offline

eloise

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1732
  • Joined: 27 Mar 2015, 16:05

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 11:14

SpudmanWP wrote:SACM never claimed anti-missile capability and radar is useless vs the F-35 at anything longer than a few dozen miles.

How about mixing MSDN and AIM-9X, F-15X use MSDN to intercept AIM-120 and SACM from F-35, then when F-35 is empty, it can be run down
8BE2D60D-18D9-427A-B92B-166E7BBA1BF3.png

E4952718-973C-4EE0-83D4-4FF686A0C737.png
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4547
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 14:36

eloise wrote: then when F-35 is empty, it can be run down

Still have to find it first
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2883
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 14:46

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
eloise wrote: then when F-35 is empty, it can be run down

Still have to find it first


While not being killed by other F-35s in the area watching you closely...
Offline
User avatar

marsavian

Elite 1K

Elite 1K

  • Posts: 1336
  • Joined: 02 Feb 2018, 21:55

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 14:54

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:
eloise wrote: then when F-35 is empty, it can be run down

Still have to find it first


Legion IRST21 pods with a bit of luck plus the latest EPAWSS might give it a clue where to look.

https://www.baesystems.com/en/product/e ... tem-epawss
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4547
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 15:22

meanwhile, the F-35 and everything it is networked to already knows where you are and what you are doing. It's just not something I would want to do.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4547
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 15:33

eloise wrote:@Spurt: How many missile can F-15 carry before it has lower top speed and longer acceleration time than F-35?
Can a fully loaded F-15X with 16-22 AIM-120 catch a F-35?

By my model (and I have a fairly high confidence in this model) an F-15SA with 14 AMRAAMS and two AIM-9Xs with CFT only has a top aerodynamic speed of ~1.59M. With 60% fuel, it would take 54s to reach Mach 1.2 from 0.8 at 30,000ft and using 1,280lb of fuel to do it. It would have 3 minutes of AB time remaining under these conditions before nominal BINGO (3* reserve remaining).

Weighing in at 60,580lb, it has a Wing Loading of 99.6, and Lift Loading of 60.8, a remaining Fuel Fraction of 0.22, and an excess thrust to weight at 0.85M@36,000ft of 0.18. That T/W correlates to a 10 deg climb or an acceleration of 3.4kt/sec or 0.006M/sec. There is a lot of power in two F100-GE-129s.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline

quicksilver

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2765
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 01:30

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 16:48

spr, :salute: the work that has gone into your model. fwiw, it seems to be very generous wrt transonic accel in that configuration. Maybe the delta to my understanding is about the engines...
Offline

quicksilver

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2765
  • Joined: 16 Feb 2011, 01:30

Unread post08 Feb 2019, 16:57

The other general observation I offer is that there is an opportunity cost in ‘catching’ or ‘running someone down’. Your fuel numbers highlight the fact that depending on where a given target is located relative to the weapons envelope of those weapons remaining on one’s jet, ‘running someone down’ can cost one the fuel to get home (or at least back to the tanker). Of course, if one is defending one’s home plate, ‘allowable risk’ for such decisions is very very high; in other cases, not so much.

Perhaps another relevant comparison might be the delta Mach necessary to close a given distance in a certain amount of time, because that helps define that ‘opportunity cost’ I refer to.
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 versus XYZ

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests