Operational Performace Comparison: Viper, Beagle, and Stubby

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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element1loop

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 07:22

Thank you for your effort spurts. 8)
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garrya

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 07:43

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:It feels SOOOOO good to do this. I was having a hell of a time with the F-15 fuel burn modeling in different weights and loadouts. Then I was having a hell of a time finding a convenient way to do the CAP mission probability. It doesn't work to sum the odds that a given aircraft survives or dies, you have to take the odds that each shot even occurs. If the first shot has a 45% pK, then there is only a 55% chance the next shot even happens, and so forth. So, I'm a bit late, but here is a .PDF of what I have: The F-15SA through the CAP mission. I still need to do the Intercept, Deep Strike, and CAS missions. There is a lot of performance info here on how the F-15SA compares to my model of the Su-35S, as well as info about how I am modeling system performance. If anyone has concrete proof that I have a mistake in the systems, please share. If anyone who is a subject matter expert (looking at hornetfinn) thinks I should try a different approach to my systems and has one to offer, please share.

One last note, I am having some formatting issues with Word. Some tables are being split in two for seemingly no reason and the table of contents just looks ugly. I will try to fix this before the next release.

Enjoy
Strike Fighters 2025 F-15SA CAP.pdf

Yes, it finally here :devil: :devil: :devil: thank Spurt
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 08:07

WORD is not a DTP program so odd things happen. Try using TABS instead of endless ………………….. for your TOC. Make back-ups of your WORD work - as you go - because you may find that 'all of a sudden' it goes SPROING! with your formatting.
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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 10:11

Btw where did you got the number for this table:
Capture.PNG


Secondly, about this table,
12.PNG

i have some opinion: the "range reduction" effect of jammer is basically how close the jammer can remain effective
Image
To be effective, the jammer need to achieve a certain level of J/S ratio, the level required varies with different forms of jamming.
aesa-radar2.png

I know i sound nitpicky but i have to say that because even with the same jamming system, with the same operating mode use on F-22 or F-35 will have much greater range reduction effect than if you put them on a Rafale or F-15.
burnthrough 2.png


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garrya

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 11:17

In short, I propose you use this table instead:
1.PNG
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post07 Jan 2019, 15:10

[quote="garrya"]Btw where did you got the number for this table:
Capture.PNG


That table is certainly one of the places where I am looking for and welcome proof of corrections. What I did was develop a formula to taking AESA antenna size and technological sophistication and calibrate that against claims of the F-22s radar performance. Antenna sizes were either module counts from images or estimates from hornetfinn. Between hornetfinn's posts and your blog I gathered that the features that allow a radar to get the most range for a given size/power are some of the same features that improve resistance to ECM. The only numbers in that table that have an actual reference are the F-22 and the Su-35S.

About your excellent constructive criticism on jamming effects, I will PM you so that the thread is not bogged down by a one-on-one.
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gta4

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 02:13

Well as I have estimated, a Clean F-15SA without CFT is pretty impressive :mrgreen:
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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 02:16

I will upload the drag polar and 1G envelop of Mig-29A from its aerodynamic manual. It may help spurs with future work
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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 07:34

Small question: what is the loaded limit in red? why do they both have loaded limit at Mach 1.4?
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post08 Jan 2019, 14:01

garrya wrote:Small question: what is the loaded limit in red? why do they both have loaded limit at Mach 1.4?
Capture.PNG

No particular reason for the loaded limit being in red.

CAS/Mach limits for the F-15 are 800/2.45 clean, 750/2 with CFTs, 700/1.8 with targeting pods, 660/1.5 with wing tanks, and 660/1.4 with any CFT mounted munitions (including air to air missiles). Every loadout for the Eagle has CFT mounted munitions. There once was a Strike Eagle website that I can no longer find that listed every known combat load a Mudhen ever went to war with. What I noticed is that CFTs, two wing tanks, and targeting pods were ALWAYS used, even on the Air Sovereignty missions they performed.

As for why they are BOTH the same? I have no data for the Su-35S so I had to ask myself which assumption was better: The Su-35S has no speed restrictions with any payload, or A-G payloads will have speed restrictions similar to the F-15 CFT stores. I am not assuming the limit applies to A-A stores on the Su-35S.

This is one of the areas where I am unsure of the most convenient way to present all the data, so I chose to show max and min top speed limits.
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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 01:24

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote: There once was a Strike Eagle website that I can no longer find that listed every known combat load a Mudhen ever went to war with. What I noticed is that CFTs, two wing tanks, and targeting pods were ALWAYS used, even on the Air Sovereignty missions they performed.


It must have been www.f-15e.info. The website seems to be gone, but maybe you can try reaching them on Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/F15E.info/
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 04:14

That sounds correct. Thanks for the tip!
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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 04:35

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:CAS/Mach limits for the F-15 are 800/2.45 clean, 750/2 with CFTs, 700/1.8 with targeting pods, 660/1.5 with wing tanks, and 660/1.4 with any CFT mounted munitions (including air to air missiles). Every loadout for the Eagle has CFT mounted munitions. There once was a Strike Eagle website that I can no longer find that listed every known combat load a Mudhen ever went to war with. What I noticed is that CFTs, two wing tanks, and targeting pods were ALWAYS used, even on the Air Sovereignty missions they performed.
As for why they are BOTH the same? I have no data for the Su-35S so I had to ask myself which assumption was better: The Su-35S has no speed restrictions with any payload, or A-G payloads will have speed restrictions similar to the F-15 CFT stores. I am not assuming the limit applies to A-A stores on the Su-35S.

This is one of the areas where I am unsure of the most convenient way to present all the data, so I chose to show max and min top speed limits.

For A2A payload, this is what i can find:
1.PNG

su27-3.gif

https://forum.keypublishing.com/forum/m ... read/page9
Andraxxus is very well known for his knowledge about aerodynamic so that i guess we can take his word, in the mean time i will try to contact him to see if we can get the manual
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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 09:32

viper12 wrote:
sprstdlyscottsmn wrote: There once was a Strike Eagle website that I can no longer find that listed every known combat load a Mudhen ever went to war with. What I noticed is that CFTs, two wing tanks, and targeting pods were ALWAYS used, even on the Air Sovereignty missions they performed.


It must have been http://www.f-15e.info. The website seems to be gone, but maybe you can try reaching them on Facebook : https://www.facebook.com/F15E.info/


Preserved. The Lantirn targeting pod was not in all configurations due to shortages so only the lead carried it but the navigation pod was.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180421064 ... 80/joomla/

https://web.archive.org/web/20180323145 ... nal-stores

https://web.archive.org/web/20180424024 ... sert-storm

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Unread post09 Jan 2019, 11:10

F-15e.info used to be run by Szabolcs Serflek, whom I understand is Hungarian and used to work in a bank. He should be contactable via linkedin if anyone is interested to know the source of the info which I believe were contributions by various posters before he put them into the pics.
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