Can the F-35 match the PAK-FA

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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knowan

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Unread post19 May 2019, 21:20

Once Turkey gets slapped with sanctions and their economy begins to crumble, they won't be able to afford the Su-57, even if Russia offers them at the ridiculous price of just $35 million per plane.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 May 2019, 00:20

You can at least double that price for export like it is for the Su-35. They want to recoup R+D on foreign sales. Subsidized sales are only for RuAF.
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knowan

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Unread post20 May 2019, 09:44

marsavian wrote:You can at least double that price for export like it is for the Su-35. They want to recoup R+D on foreign sales. Subsidized sales are only for RuAF.


I would expect over $100 million per plane.
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milosh

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Unread post20 May 2019, 10:59

Selling Su-57 to Turkey is political deal so price isn't important, so domestic price could happen.

Also it would be nice slap to Indians which would need to explain its public why they are paying Rafale +200million dollars and Turkey is getting Su-57 for less then 40millions!

Erdo probable want some other Russian tech, for example Zircons would be so nice for Turkey it would give him weapon to threaten Israel, and I think Su-57 will be able to carry two Zircons. Of course it is just Erdo's big Islam protector propaganda BS, but that is most important to him after all.
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marsavian

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Unread post20 May 2019, 11:16

Milosh, your post is fantasy, the Indians were not getting a cheap Su-57 price when they were actually paying for its development, the Russians will use the F-35 leverage to extract maximum price for Su-57 as Turkey will not have many options.
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babybat{}.net

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Unread post20 May 2019, 12:32

milosh wrote:I think Su-57 will be able to carry two Zircons.


Su-57 will not carry Zircon.
Another hypersonic weapon system is being developed for it..
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milosh

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Unread post20 May 2019, 14:56

marsavian wrote:Milosh, your post is fantasy, the Indians were not getting a cheap Su-57 price when they were actually paying for its development, the Russians will use the F-35 leverage to extract maximum price for Su-57 as Turkey will not have many options.


But Indians didn't paid their part of PAK-FA cost, that is reason why deal was canceled. India paid something like 200 million dollars at most, I think.
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gideonic

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Unread post20 May 2019, 15:02

milosh wrote:
marsavian wrote:Milosh, your post is fantasy, the Indians were not getting a cheap Su-57 price when they were actually paying for its development, the Russians will use the F-35 leverage to extract maximum price for Su-57 as Turkey will not have many options.


But Indians didn't paid their part of PAK-FA cost, that is reason why deal was canceled. India paid something like 200 million dollars at most, I think.

Because they didn't think it was worth paying $10 billion just to get a few prototypes and no final aircraft. In addition, they were not happy with the plane that would have been the final result of that R&D money (didn't meet all of their requirements). And that's the price they needed to pay, before they would have gotten a single production aircraft (which would surely be at least as expensive as the Su-30 MKI). The production planes would also cost at least something. You'd get 50 combat-ready Rafales for that, even at your quoted price.
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knowan

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Unread post20 May 2019, 17:36

There is no way Russia will subsidise Turkey's defence budget by effectively giving them a bunch of Su-57s.

If Turkey ends up getting the Su-57, they will almost certainly end up paying more than F-35 cost per plane.
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Unread post20 May 2019, 18:49

Don't forget the annual engine buys ;)
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vilters

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Unread post20 May 2019, 19:41

What engines? :devil:
The ones that burn out, or the ones that still have to burn out? :devil:

And the "new obsolete one" is still on the drawing board. :devil:
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Unread post20 May 2019, 20:15

Whatever ones they buy, they will likely have to buy new ones every year :)
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Unread post21 May 2019, 15:17

That engine sure is PAK-FA's "X-factor". It's going to make or break it, no two ways about it. Either it's an underpowered, semi-stealthy, very fast fighter or...

It'll be an extremely powerful, lightening fast fighter that.... probably eats AMRAAM's anyway. Until and unless they get that little problem figured out, it's tough to see India/any other sensible nation buying it...
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marsavian

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Unread post21 May 2019, 15:32

Don't forget it will be the RuAF's first official AESA fighter as well. It's an evolutionary step in airframe and engines but that's how the Russians like to work, minimum cost and risk to give maximum bang for buck. It will only be notable if they ever get an operationally useful ROFAR radar on it but don't hold your breath on that score as it's mainly a big bold promising theory at the moment.
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gta4

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Unread post23 May 2019, 15:14

The structure strength is another X-factor of Su-57.
According to aviation week's interview, prototypes of Su-57 suffers from insufficient structure strength which limits its G rating. If it is strengthened then it would cause overweight.
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