F-35 and X-47B

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
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neptune

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 03:32

....is this pie not large enough for NG to profit or...are their endeavors better suited elsewhere?
:wink:
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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 03:38

neptune wrote:....is this pie not large enough for NG to profit or...are their endeavors better suited elsewhere?
:wink:

Might be a replay of the Avenger: “We can give you what you are asking for, but not at the price you are offering.”
Einstein got it backward: one cannot prevent a war without preparing for it.

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Unread post26 Oct 2017, 19:00

I wonder what kind of RCS is GA's proposal? If it is in the 0.1 m2 or lower range, then it is not bad for refueling purpose. Navy wants UAV to on carrier ASAP to gain basic operation experience and relieve SH sorties, while further penetration ISR or strike platform will follow.

My prediction is that X-47B will see its glorious days further down the road.
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Unread post16 Nov 2017, 11:34

U.S. Navy Shrugs Off Northrop’s MQ-25 Snub
15 Nov 2017 James Drew

"...Darrah [Rear Adm. Mark Darrah, program executive officer for unmanned aviation and strike weapons at Navair] confirms that a down-select to one vendor for MQ-25 is expected by late summer 2018.

The development contract will deliver four aircraft for testing and evaluation. The winner must then prove themselves by delivering the promised capability on time and on budget. If successful, they could receive follow-on contracts for the production phase.

Darrah says the program of record calls for 72 aircraft capable of operating from Nimitz or Ford-class carriers.

“We want to go as fast as we can and get them out there as quickly as we can. We’re incentivizing [the contractor] to do well in the engineering and manufacturing development phase,” he says.

The only two key performance parameters are carrier integration and mission tanking. To qualify, the proposed aircraft must be capable of offloading 14,000 lb. of gas starting at 500 mi. from the carrier.

The Navy says all other design attributes are “trade space” that can be exchanged for greater performance or lower costs in other areas. Secondary attributes previously being considered, like 12 hr. of endurance, were removed. No new development is planned for this aircraft, just integration of mature, existing capabilities, including the government-furnished aerial refueling system (ARS), or buddy store.

The MQ-25 will carry an electro-optical/infrared sensor ball and have space, weight, power and cooling provisions for a potential maritime surveillance radar.

Instead of specifying how many MQ-25s will embark at a time, the Navy has told contractors how many refueling “hoses” it needs for carrier operations. The service also has provided contractors with a “spot factor” value, the maximum amount of real estate their platform can occupy on the carrier deck, including peculiar support equipment.

Darrah says many of the competitors are already working on advanced prototypes, including flying and non-flying test articles. Based on what the contractors may or may not have already shown the Navy already, he teased that people might see something flying sooner than expected after contract award.

Darrah says the tanker will not carry weapons, but future carrier-based drones might. The purpose of the MQ-25, he says, is to develop an aircraft optimized for tanking that will extend the operational range of the carrier air wing and free up Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornets for combat missions. “We want an aircraft design from the start to do that mission,” Darrah says. “It’s about utilizing aircraft in a more efficient way.”"

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/us-navy ... mq-25-snub
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post16 Nov 2017, 13:22

Definitely no tolerance for mission creep.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post29 Nov 2017, 03:46

NAVAIR studies plugging MQ-25 ground system into carrier ATC
27 Nov 2017 Stephen Trimble

"As three companies continue vying for the contract to develop the MQ-25 Stingray, the US Navy is quietly making progress with the design of the carrier-based, unmanned tanker aircraft’s mission control system. The Naval Air Warfare Center’s Aircraft Division in Lakehurst, New Jersey, is polling industry sources for a vendor that can develop an interface to plug the MQ-25’s carrier- and shore-based mission control station into the aircraft carrier’s air traffic control system.

The request for information released on 22 November is a further sign that Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) is laying the groundwork for the MQ-25 to be ready to enter service by the mid-2020s. Last April, NAVAIR announced that a demonstration had validated the first software build for the MD-5 unmanned carrier aviation mission control system (UMCS).

The control system is divided into two components, according to the Lakehurst center’s RFI. The MD-5A will be integrated on the navy’s fleet of aircraft carriers, directing the Boeing F/A-18E/F-sized MQ-25 during takeoffs and landings. The MD-5B will be a shore-based control system, using satellite communications to monitor and control the aircraft during the mission phase.

The MD-5A version of the UMCS must integrate with the shipboard air traffic control system (SATCC). The new interface that Lakehurst is studying would translate audio messages from a human air vehicle operator for the MQ-25 into voice-over internet protocol, so it can communicate with the SATCC. The requirements also include a system that can handle classified plaintext data as well as encrypted ciphertext...."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ar-443649/
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post19 Dec 2017, 20:39

BOING! does the peekaboo stingray boogie. COME ON! Show the damn airyplane youse shitheads for gorsake - sheesh. :doh:
Boeing Shares Sneak Peek of Aerial Refueler for MQ-25 Competition
Unmanned refueling aircraft is completing engine runs, testing
19 Dec 2017 BOING! PR

"ST. LOUIS, Dec. 19, 2017 – Boeing [NYSE:BA] for the first time is showing what it believes is the unmanned aircraft system (UAS) best suited for refueling U.S. Navy jets operating from aircraft carriers.

Through its MQ-25 competition, the Navy is seeking unmanned refueling capabilities that would extend the combat range of deployed Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornet, Boeing EA-18G Growler, and Lockheed Martin F-35C fighters. The MQ-25 will also have to seamlessly integrate with a carrier’s catapult and launch and recovery systems.

“Boeing has been delivering carrier aircraft to the Navy for almost 90 years,” said Don ‘BD’ Gaddis, a retired admiral who leads the refueling system program for Boeing’s Phantom Works technology organization. “Our expertise gives us confidence in our approach. We will be ready for flight testing when the engineering and manufacturing development contract is awarded.”

The UAS is completing engine runs before heading to the flight ramp for deck handling demonstrations early next year.

MedRezPhotie: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/image/MQ-25_med-res.jpg
HiRez Photo: [don't bother as one has to be media to get it - Stingy Boing! geddit?] http://boeing.mediaroom.com/protected_u ... tem=130095 (JPG 2.5Mb)


Source: http://boeing.mediaroom.com/2017-12-19- ... 130095-117

Boeing offers sneak peek of MQ-25 tanker drone
19 Dec 2017 Valerie Insinna

"...“It’s an aircraft with the mission in mind, and we felt confident that the wing-body-tail design was the best for the refueling mission,” said Boeing spokeswoman Didi VanNierop, who added that the company incorporated lessons from its Phantom Ray unmanned demonstrator and other Boeing unmanned aerial systems.

Boeing’s MQ-25 is slated to conduct engine runs by the end of the year at its St. Louis, Missouri, facility before moving on to deck handling demos early next year, the company said in a news release.

During the deck handling demonstrations, the company will take the aircraft to the ramp, which will be marked to the measurements of an aircraft carrier’s flight deck, VanNierop said. There, operators will taxi the aircraft via remote control and move it within the confines of the deck. They will also validate that the aircraft will engage the launch bar of a catapult. However, the aircraft will not fly during those demonstrations, and Boeing has not set a date for first flight, she noted...."

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/12 ... ker-drone/
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StingieBoing!.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post20 Dec 2017, 01:14

Boeing Unveils Its MQ-25A Stingray Entry Ahead of Jan. 3 Deadline for Proposals
19 Dec 2017 Megan Eckstein

"...As a rapid acquisition project, the Navy has designated just two key performance parameters for the UAV: mission tanking, and carrier suitability. The winning design will have to launch and recover from an aircraft carrier at sea, just like any manned aircraft, and will have to meet manned planes at range to refuel them during missions, helping to nearly double the range of the carrier air wing.

The request for proposals (RFP) was issued to industry in October following a draft RFP in July. Boeing noted in its news release that proposals are due Jan. 3.

The Navy hopes to field the first MQ-25 by 2020 and has already announced that aircraft carriers USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN-69) and USS George H.W. Bush (CVN-77) will be the first to operate the unmanned tanker."

Source: https://news.usni.org/2017/12/19/boeing ... gray-entry
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post20 Dec 2017, 06:51

How could the USN hope to field the first MQ-25 by 2020. Regardless, what design it ultimately selects??? :roll:
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Unread post20 Dec 2017, 07:05

If it's that largely automated manufacturing Boeing spend a couple billion on, assembly costs may be rock bottom. Recoup money on maintenance is their general theme.
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Unread post20 Dec 2017, 17:14

Boeing Phantom Works Reveals MQ-25 Prototype
19 Dec 2017 James Drew

"...The first full[?] picture of the aerial tanking UAV was released by the company on Dec. 19, revealing a stout wing-body-tail design with a canted V-tail.

...The design appears to be an enlarged version of Boeing’s concept for the former Navy Unmanned Carrier-Launched Surveillance and Strike (Uclass) program, which in 2016 morphed into the MQ-25 Stingray Carrier-Based Aerial Refueling System.

It is difficult to tell much about the aircraft because of the way the image is framed. But compared to Boeing’s Uclass concept, the body has clearly been enlarged for fuel capacity. The wing and tail appear to fold up to reduce the aircraft’s spot factor on the carrier deck.

The prototype was developed by Boeing’s Phantom Works advanced programs division. It is the basis for the company’s MQ-25 proposal, which must be submitted to the program office at Naval Air Systems Command by Jan. 3, 2018....

...The initial contract is a fixed-price incentive type for the engineering and manufacturing development phase. Four aircraft will be built initially to support development and flight testing. If successful, the winner can look forward to follow-on contracts for serial production...."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/defense/boeing- ... -prototype
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post21 Dec 2017, 22:35

Boeing releases image of offering for US Navy’s MQ-25 competition
20 Dec 2017 Pat Host

"...Boeing on 19 December released a photo of its MQ-25 offering. Derrick Maple, Jane's principal analyst for unmanned systems, said the photo reveals a forward camera mounted in the fuselage and strengthened undercarriage struts for deck operations and double nose-wheels...." [Thank you linesmen - thank you ballboys]

Source: http://www.janes.com/article/76574/boei ... ompetition
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post04 Jan 2018, 11:22

Why Does Boeing's MQ-25 Prototype Look So Stealthy? [BEST READ ALL & SEE PICS AT SOURCE]
03 Jan 2018 Graham Warwick

"A short teaser video posted by Boeing on Twitter showing the company-funded prototype of its offering for the U.S. Navy’s MQ-25 Stingray has raised questions about why its design for an unmanned carrier-based aerial refueling tanker should look so stealthy.

The answer may lie in the origins of the Navy’s long-gestated requirement for the so-called Carrier-Based Aerial Refueling System (CBARS), but what is obvious is that Boeing’s design bears a resemblance to one of the key aircraft in the history of stealth - Northrop’s 1980s Tacit Blue demonstrator....

...The inlet is no more apparent in the latest video. In fact, there doesn’t appear to be one! The only hint at its existence is a black line mid-way along the prototype’s upper fuselage stenciled with the words “Jet Inlet Danger.” This suggests Boeing’s MQ-25 has an inlet buried in its back and therefore completely flush - like that on the Tacit Blue....

...On Tacit Blue the engines exhausted from a slot nozzle located between V-tails - which also seems to be the case with Boeing’s MQ-25. The Tacit Blue’s wing and tails were unswept - as they appear to be on Boeing’s unmanned aerial refueler. Boeing’s design also has a chine running around the perimeter of the fuselage - a familiar characteristic of stealth designs.

By [BUT?] why? Stealth is not one the Navy’s requirements for CBARS. It was, once, a requirement for the CBARS’ predecessor, the Unmanned Carrier-Launched Surveillance Strike (UCLASS) system. But after a lengthy and contentious debate, UCLASS was downgraded to an unmanned tanker and the need for stealth removed.

Northrop Grumman - which built and flew the tailless, flying-wing X-47B under the predecessor to UCLASS, the Naval Unmanned Combat Air System Demonstrator program - dropped out of the running for CBARS after seeing the final request for proposals (RFP). The lack of a requirement for a stealthy platform that could be developed from the X-47B may have one of the reasons.

Boeing’s MQ-25 design may have acquired its stealth features when it was UCLASS, and retained its shape through the many study phases that led up to the final CBARS RFP. It may be a bet placed by Boeing that the Navy, once it gets the Stingray on its carrier decks, will want to evolve the aircraft from an unmanned tanker to a surveillance/strike asset than needs stealth.

Another sign of stealth influence in the design’s origins that is visible in the video is the arrestor hook, which is enclosed behind a door when retracted. But the prototype seen being rolled out by Boeing’s Phantom Works in St. Louis does not have sawtooth edges on its gear doors or access panels, the existence of which is another typical signifier of stealth requirements.

Other design features of note. Boeing’s MQ-25 prototype has three air-data sensors on the nose - indicating triplex digital fly-by-wing flight control - but they are probes and not the flush sensors used on Northrop’s stealth-shaped X-47B. There is also what appears to be a camera under the flat nose, presumably to provide the ground operator a view ahead during takeoff and landing....



Source: http://aviationweek.com/blog/why-does-b ... o-stealthy
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BoeingMQ-25hookContestant.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post04 Jan 2018, 16:00

Here is the Boing video in 1280x720 resolution. Under 2MB in size. Was able to step through it frame-by-frame with the smplayer video app under Winbloze.
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Boeing Defense MQ-25 on Twitter[720, Mp4].mp4 [ 1.88 MiB | Viewed 1752 times ]

Take an F-16, add a dollop of A-7, a big gob of F-22, sprinkle on some AV-8B, stir well, then bake. What do you get? An F-35.
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Unread post04 Jan 2018, 22:03

FAA approves registration number for Boeing MQ-25 prototype
04 Jan 2018 Stephen Trimble

"...The Federal Aviation Administration assigned registration number, N234MQ, to Boeing for a St. Louis-aircraft model dubbed the “T1” on 26 December. The registration omits several typical details, including the model of the turbofan engine that powers the aircraft....

...a follow-video posted on 3 January by Boeing confirmed that the inlet in the nose is actually an auxiliary intake or perhaps a cooling vent. The real inlet for the turbofan engine is instead mounted dorsally and flush with the fuselage. It’s a rare configuration choice that evokes memories of Northrop’s Tacit Blue stealth demonstrator in the early 1980s....

...General Atomics previously has released a generic concept revealing a design that mixes elements of the fuselage and wing of the MQ-9 Reaper with the propulsion and empennage of the Predator C Avenger.

Lockheed Martin has released only a fragment of its MQ-25 concept aircraft, showing only part of the underside of a wing and a refueling pod."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... pr-444627/

TACIT BLUE: http://aviationweek.com/site-files/avia ... itBlue.jpg
&
http://cms.ipressroom.com.s3.amazonaws. ... 47-006.JPG (2Mb)
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TACIT BLUE.jpg
TACIT BLUE FRONT ABOVEed.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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