F-35A versus Saab Gripen NG

The F-35 compared with other modern jets.
  • Author
  • Message
Offline
User avatar

XanderCrews

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 6054
  • Joined: 16 Oct 2012, 19:42

Unread post12 Sep 2019, 22:58

Poland has requested to buy thirty-two (32) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Aircraft and thirty-three (33) Pratt & Whitney F-135 Engines. Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer, and Intelligence/Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, logistics, and personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $6.5 billion.



Saab Signs $5.4 Billion Contract With Brazil For 36 Gripen Fighters
Our Bureau 10:12 AM, October 27, 2014 3002
Saab has won a $5.4 billion contract for the development and production of 36 Gripen NG fighter for Brazil.

The contract was signed between Saab and the Brazilian Federal Government (Ministry of Defense through the Aeronautics Command, COMAER). Saab and COMAER also signed a contract for industrial co-operation projects, including technology transfer to Brazilian industry, to be performed over approximately ten years.

“We are proud to stand side-by-side with Brazil in this important program. There is already a long and successful history of industrial co-operation between our two countries, and this historic agreement takes that partnership to a new level”, Marcus Wallenberg, Chairman of Saab’s Board of Directors said.

The contract comes as a relief for Saab after Switzerland rejected $3.5 billion order of Gripen fighters in May this year.

The order comprises of 28 single seat and eight two-seat Gripen NG aircraft for Brazil’s air force. The delivery is expected to start in 2019, the company said in a statement today.

Brazil will receive a higher amount of technology transfer as part of the purchase than initially planned.


https://www.defenseworld.net/news/11373 ... Xq_NyhKiUl


uhhhhhhhhhh.....
Choose Crews
Offline
User avatar

jetblast16

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 658
  • Joined: 23 Aug 2004, 00:12
  • Location: USA

Unread post22 Sep 2019, 20:43



Though, not the 'NG' variant, still an interesting video. My take (probably less than 2 cents) on Gripen: relatively cheap and very capable, but no F-35A. The NG's avionics and sensors could be very interesting; but still not an F-35A.
Have F110, Block 70, will travel
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23743
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post04 Oct 2019, 10:44

Six Page PDF from Combat Aircraft Magazine Nov 2019 "Gripen Gains" attached below.
Attachments
Gripen Gains - Combat Aircraft Nov 2019 pp6.pdf
(871.48 KiB) Downloaded 319 times
Brazil TOP Gripen Gains Combat Aircraft Nov 2019.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

mixelflick

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3605
  • Joined: 20 Mar 2010, 10:26
  • Location: Parts Unknown

Unread post04 Oct 2019, 15:36

Great pilot and a snappy routine showing an outstanding roll rate. When I look at this demo though, it's not doing anything I've seen a million times in the F-16. It certainly pales in comparison to the various Flanker, Raptor and now F-35 demo's.

It seems right for Brazil, but there aren't many other countries that can say the same. No way it'd be suitable for the Middle East, Far East etc.. This is going to be SABB's last hurrah, of that I'm fairly certain..
Offline

gta4

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 896
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 19:10

Unread post04 Oct 2019, 15:54

mixelflick wrote:Great pilot and a snappy routine showing an outstanding roll rate. When I look at this demo though, it's not doing anything I've seen a million times in the F-16. It certainly pales in comparison to the various Flanker, Raptor and now F-35 demo's.

It seems right for Brazil, but there aren't many other countries that can say the same. No way it'd be suitable for the Middle East, Far East etc.. This is going to be SABB's last hurrah, of that I'm fairly certain..


All I can say is that Gripen E has a weight similar to F-16C, but an engine less powerful than that of F-16A :mrgreen:
Offline
User avatar

botsing

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 870
  • Joined: 05 Dec 2015, 18:09
  • Location: The Netherlands

Unread post04 Oct 2019, 16:01

spazsinbad wrote:Six Page PDF from Combat Aircraft Magazine Nov 2019 "Gripen Gains" attached below.

Image

Looks nice with that paintjob!

However I also see dogtooths, strakes and splitter plates, something that you would not expect from a really modern design.
"Those who know don’t talk. Those who talk don’t know"
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23743
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post10 Dec 2019, 22:29

Talk about TEETHmarks…. Get along li'l doggie in your TIE dogfighties….
PLAAF J-11 beat RTAF Gripen 16-0 on first day of Falcon Strike 2015 [HEAPS of SLIDES but in CHINESE?]
10 Dec 2019 ALERT5

"A talk was given at China’s Northwestern Polytechnical University on Dec. 9. The speaker was reported to be Li Zhonghua who is said to have participated in Exercise Falcon Strike 2015 in Thailand. One of the slides showed the score during each day of the exercise and during the first day, the Thais flying the Gripen were beaten 16-0.

Another slide shows that although the Thais did very badly on the first day. These were dogfights and the Gripen fared better in the beyond-visual-range (BVR) arena. With 24 percent of the kills at range beyond 50km.... [lots of stuff then]

...Despite dominating in the dogfight arena, the Chinese still picked up important lessons from the Thai. They found that when dealing with Thai attacks using the Sun as cover, the strategy of the Chinese are simplified. When in an advantageous position, the Chinese were in a rush to score victory and fell into traps put up by the Thais."

Source: http://alert5.com/2019/12/10/plaaf-j-11 ... more-79377
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline
User avatar

spazsinbad

Elite 5K

Elite 5K

  • Posts: 23743
  • Joined: 05 May 2009, 21:31
  • Location: ɐıןɐɹʇsn∀¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Warnings: -2

Unread post10 Dec 2019, 22:38

First Gripen E for Sweden Flies
06 Dec 2019 David Donald

"The first series production Gripen E for Sweden has made its initial flight, piloted by Försvarets Materielverk (FMV, defense materiel administration) test pilot Henrik Wänseth, Saab announced on December 3. Serialed 6002, the aircraft displayed a new three-tone gray splinter camouflage that is redolent of the “fields and meadows” worn for many years by Swedish military aircraft. Whether this becomes the standard scheme is questionable: FMV noted on its Instagram account that the paint scheme is “different on the different aircraft” and is “part of the tests.”...

...In late November, a full Systems Rig was installed at the Gripen Design and Development Network (GDDN) at Embraer’s Gavião Peixoto facility. Built as a partnership between Saab, Embraer, Atech, AEL Sistemas, and the Brazilian Air Force, the “S-Rig” simulator will become an important tool in developing and testing new systems. It will also allow test pilots to rehearse trials flights prior to getting airborne and, as such, will support the activities of the Gripen Flight Test Center (GFTC) that is to be established alongside the GDDN in 2020.

Saab is hopeful that both domestic customers will order more aircraft. Sweden could add to its 60 in the light of increased tension in the Baltic region, while Brazil has stated an ultimate requirement for 108 to be acquired in three batches. Detailed negotiations concerning a second 36-aircraft batch could start in 2021...."

"Shades of the past: the first production Swedish Gripen E wears a splinter camouflage. (photo: Saab)" https://www.ainonline.com/sites/default ... 682-1_.jpg


[b]Source: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... eden-flies
Attachments
FirstGripenEswedishAFdec2019.jpg
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
Offline

gta4

Forum Veteran

Forum Veteran

  • Posts: 896
  • Joined: 17 Oct 2010, 19:10

Unread post15 Dec 2019, 06:09

I think J-11 had an upper hand mainly due to its R-73 vs JAS39's AIM-9L. Most dogfight performance metrics are still in favor of JAS39, according to those PPT slides.
Offline

wrightwing

Elite 3K

Elite 3K

  • Posts: 3382
  • Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 15:22

Unread post15 Dec 2019, 13:45

gta4 wrote:I think J-11 had an upper hand mainly due to its R-73 vs JAS39's AIM-9L. Most dogfight performance metrics are still in favor of JAS39, according to those PPT slides.

Yep. Put ASRAAM, IRIS-T, Python 5, or AIM-9X Block 2+ on the Gripen, and the J-11 will have a bad day.
Offline

hornetfinn

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2931
  • Joined: 13 Mar 2013, 08:31
  • Location: Finland

Unread post16 Dec 2019, 10:40

Exactly. It has been found that HMS+HOBS missiles are really dangerous combo in WVR combat. I predict that F-35 system with full HMD+HOBS missiles and EODAS with sensor fusion is even more dangerous as it constantly keeps track of who is who and where they are.

It's interesting that the Thais didn't seem to find a way or tactics to defeat it as the Chinese seemed to really dominate the WVR combat.
Offline

irt

Enthusiast

Enthusiast

  • Posts: 20
  • Joined: 08 Nov 2018, 21:16
  • Warnings: 2

Unread post14 Jan 2020, 19:04

XanderCrews wrote:Poland has requested to buy thirty-two (32) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Aircraft and thirty-three (33) Pratt & Whitney F-135 Engines. Also included are Electronic Warfare Systems; Command, Control, Communications, Computer, and Intelligence/Communications, Navigational, and Identification (C4I/CNI); Autonomic Logistics Global Support System (ALGS); Autonomic Logistics Information System (ALIS); Full Mission Trainer; Weapons Employment Capability, and other Subsystems, Features, and Capabilities; F-35 unique infrared flares; reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics; software development/integration; aircraft ferry and tanker support; support equipment; tools and test equipment; communications equipment; spares and repair parts; personnel training and training equipment; publications and technical documents; U.S. Government and contractor engineering, logistics, and personnel services; and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is $6.5 billion.



Saab Signs $5.4 Billion Contract With Brazil For 36 Gripen Fighters
Our Bureau 10:12 AM, October 27, 2014 3002
Saab has won a $5.4 billion contract for the development and production of 36 Gripen NG fighter for Brazil.

The contract was signed between Saab and the Brazilian Federal Government (Ministry of Defense through the Aeronautics Command, COMAER). Saab and COMAER also signed a contract for industrial co-operation projects, including technology transfer to Brazilian industry, to be performed over approximately ten years.

“We are proud to stand side-by-side with Brazil in this important program. There is already a long and successful history of industrial co-operation between our two countries, and this historic agreement takes that partnership to a new level”, Marcus Wallenberg, Chairman of Saab’s Board of Directors said.

The contract comes as a relief for Saab after Switzerland rejected $3.5 billion order of Gripen fighters in May this year.

The order comprises of 28 single seat and eight two-seat Gripen NG aircraft for Brazil’s air force. The delivery is expected to start in 2019, the company said in a statement today.

Brazil will receive a higher amount of technology transfer as part of the purchase than initially planned.


https://www.defenseworld.net/news/11373 ... Xq_NyhKiUl


uhhhhhhhhhh.....


Cost for 32 F35 and the stuff needed to operate them = $6.5 billion = $203 milion per plane... Wow!
Cost for 36 Gripen E/F and the stuff needed to operate them = SEK39.6 billion = $4.16 billion = $115 million per plane...
Cpfh of the F35 =$35000.
Cpfh of Gripen E = a lot less than $35000...

$203.000.000 per plane!

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....
Offline
User avatar

steve2267

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2381
  • Joined: 12 Jun 2016, 17:36

Unread post14 Jan 2020, 19:20

irt wrote:Cost for 32 F35 and the stuff needed to operate them = $6.5 billion = $203 milion per plane... Wow!
Cost for 36 Gripen E/F and the stuff needed to operate them = SEK39.6 billion = $4.16 billion = $115 million per plane...
Cpfh of the F35 =$35000.
Cpfh of Gripen E = a lot less than $35000...

$203.000.000 per plane!

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....


What are the opportunity costs for Poland? For Brazil?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
Offline

sprstdlyscottsmn

Elite 4K

Elite 4K

  • Posts: 4594
  • Joined: 10 Mar 2006, 01:24
  • Location: Phoenix, Az, USA

Unread post14 Jan 2020, 19:27

One must keep in mind that an initial buy carries a lot of non-recurring logistical support that is not present during follow up buys.
"Spurts"

-Pilot
-Aerospace Engineer
-Army Medic
-FMS Systems Engineer
Offline

madrat

Elite 2K

Elite 2K

  • Posts: 2409
  • Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 03:12

Unread post14 Jan 2020, 19:40

hornetfinn wrote:Exactly. It has been found that HMS+HOBS missiles are really dangerous combo in WVR combat. I predict that F-35 system with full HMD+HOBS missiles and EODAS with sensor fusion is even more dangerous as it constantly keeps track of who is who and where they are.

It's interesting that the Thais didn't seem to find a way or tactics to defeat it as the Chinese seemed to really dominate the WVR combat.

Or they chose not to reveal what they would do. There is no advantage to showing off in joint exercises with a big aggressive neighbor.
PreviousNext

Return to F-35 versus XYZ

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests