Six AMRAAMs carried internally in the F-35

lampshade111 · by **lampshade111** » 20 Jun 2010, 19:26

SpudmanWP wrote:The exact range improvements over previous models are not public.

What is known is that the range improvements are due to software updates to improve the flight profile.

IIRC somewhere they stated about a 50% range increase over the C7. And didn't the C5 and later models of the AIM-120 already have a "ballistic" flight profile?

exec · by **exec** » 20 Jun 2010, 20:27

lampshade111 wrote: And didn't the C5 and later models of the AIM-120 already have a "ballistic" flight profile?

I think a "ballistic" flight profile was implemented in AIM-120C-7, however I might be wrong.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 20 Jun 2010, 20:38

lampshade111 wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:The exact range improvements over previous models are not public.

What is known is that the range improvements are due to software updates to improve the flight profile.

IIRC somewhere they stated about a 50% range increase over the C7. And didn't the C5 and later models of the AIM-120 already have a "ballistic" flight profile?

The ballistic profile isn't a new thing.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 20 Jun 2010, 22:10

ATK only makes 2 motors for the AMRAAM, the baseline unit and the 5+ inch (PEP motor) that was introduced in C5.

http://www.atk.com/customer_solutions_m ... rm_aam.asp
http://www.atk.com/datasheet_pdfs/amraam.pdf

Any range improvements in -C7 or -D are a matter of software flight profile changes.

Here is the press release where ATK talks about the new contract.

Source

ATK Awarded Rocket Motor Technologies Development Contract for Next Generation Air-to-Air Missiles

(Source: ATK Alliant Techsystems; issued October 29, 2009)

MINNEAPOLIS --- Alliant Techsystems has been awarded a research and development contract for the Counter Air / Future Naval Capabilities (CA/FNC) program to develop technologies that can be incorporated into next generation air-to-air missile systems.

The nearly $10-million contract was issued by the Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Division, China Lake, California. ATK will work in concert with NAWCWD to identify specific propulsion technologies to develop for integration into future missile systems. The work is expected to be completed by June 2013.

The scope of the CA/FNC program is to develop technologies that will extend missile range, decrease time-to-target, improve end-game maneuverability, and improve the rocket motor's response to insensitive munitions (IM) stimuli. These improvements are oriented towards the 7-inch diameter Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM) that is currently in use by the U.S. Navy, U.S. Air Force, and many allied nations, but will be applicable to other air-to-air missile systems.

There are four main areas that ATK will be concentrating their development efforts on which include: high burn rate propellants for improved kinematics; improving case stiffness for reduced weight and agility; low erosion nozzles for improved performance; and multi-pulse propulsion for end-game maneuverability. Additionally, ATK will address the IM requirement by incorporating affordable solutions including an advanced propellant formulation, a low cost composite case, and mitigation safety devices proven on other tactical rocket motor programs.

"By drawing on our heritage rocket motor experience, proven service life of fielded propulsion systems, and incorporating unique technologies, ATK will develop a robust, affordable propulsion system to meet current and future counter air targets with the potential to influence all future air-launched missiles. ATK's proven leadership in the development of advanced propellants, IM solutions, and pulse motors will pay benefits in developing this improved propulsion system for the U.S. Navy," said Bart Olson, Vice President and General Manager of ATK's Tactical Propulsion and Controls Division.

ATK is the sole source rocket motor supplier for all currently fielded U.S. air-to-air missile systems that include the AMRAAM and AIM-9X. The technologies developed under this contract will ensure ATK maintains its leadership role in providing rocket motors for next generation air-to-air missiles.

ATK is a premier aerospace and defense company with more than 18,000 employees in 22 states, Puerto Rico and internationally, and revenues of approximately $4.8 billion.

exec · by **exec** » 20 Jun 2010, 22:49

So the D model doesn't have any kind of new motor (dual-pulse or something like that)?

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 20 Jun 2010, 23:09

Not yet.. That is what the ATK contract (Sep 2009) covers.

lampshade111 · by **lampshade111** » 21 Jun 2010, 07:18

Well either it uses some sort of new propellant then, or ATK stumbled on some sort of magic flight profile or something.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jun 2010, 07:56

No new propellant either.

My thoughts are that it's GPS based INS would allow a more efficient flight profile that would end in a downward angle enabling more end-game maneuver energy. It's 2-way update link helps too.

lampshade111 · by **lampshade111** » 21 Jun 2010, 08:33

I rather doubt you could get a "50%" range increase over what is basically the same design just by using a somewhat improved ballistic profile. Perhaps your right, but I'll guess we will find out more when squadrons start getting it.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jun 2010, 09:17

The 50% claim is not official. While I am sure it is significant, I am also sure it's not been released.

Here is what is official (From FY2010 USAF R&D):
http://www.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y201 ... 07163F.pdf

Improvements delivered under the original three-phase P3I program include enhanced EP capabilities and improved weapon effectiveness through improved fuzing, guidance, and increased kinematics. The current improvement program, AIM-120D (Phase 4) will deliver improved performance via GPS-aided navigation, a two-way datalink capability for enhanced aircrew survivability and improved network compatibility, and incorporates new guidance software which will improve kinematic and weapon effectiveness performance. Phase 4 Functional Configuration Audit (FCA) will complete in June 09 with Initial Operational Capability (IOC) on the F/A-18 E/F and F-15 C/D the first quarter of FY11.

Sorry, not new motor or fuel.

Scorpion82 · by **Scorpion82** » 21 Jun 2010, 09:27

Improved kinematic performance via software? AFAIK the rocket motor hasn't changed from C5 to C7, but it's reported that the C7 offers a 30% range increase due a lofted profile.
The D reportedly features a dual-pulse motor which means there will be two burning phases, the boost phase and a terminal phase.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jun 2010, 09:42

There may have been a plan, at one point, to have a dual-pulse motor in the 120D, but it died not make it.

In fact, ATK just got a contract in Sept 2009 to make a new motor for the AMRAAM (the first new motor since C5) and they are looking at better fuels and dual pulse. If they already had it then they would not need a contract to develop it.

I have done a lot of looking and while I have found many "reports" on certain range increases and "dual pulse" motors... I have not found anything official. Actually, the opposite is true. All evidence points to any range increases being software in nature, not new motor or fuel.

SnakeHandler · by **SnakeHandler** » 21 Jun 2010, 16:51

They need to make it a SCRAMjet. I bet that would bump up the kinematics a bit.

Hey Spud, what's the latest on carrying the six AMRAAMs internal?

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jun 2010, 17:00

It is planned for Blk5 and the a report just came out, citing a source at the "Skunkworks", that says it is doable with a "very modest" internal change to the bays.

g3143 · by **g3143** » 21 Jun 2010, 17:16

We need the Prompt Global Strike.