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F-35 Armament, fuel tanks, internal and external hardpoints, loadouts, and other stores.
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doge

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Unread post23 Jan 2019, 15:34

Corsair1963 wrote:Image

I saw the picture and came up with... My facile idea or thinking (or desire).
If also attach it to the outer door, That is total '16' !!! 8)
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mixelflick

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 15:19

I thought it was 16 too, but the mind still resists because we've been told forever up to 6 AMRAAM, and nothing else. Maybe two wingtip 9x's, but nothing more than 8.

The fact the air force is funding this little experiment has to have LM over the moon. If they can pull this off and demonstrate proof of concept, then landed a contract - it'll be a milestone. How many times has a contractor self-funded something that actually came to fruition? Can't think of many examples..

CUDA for the F-35 and F-22 are particularly important, even assuming a lesser range than AMRAAM. They can get so much closer, and PK obviously rises with proximity. Overwhelming an 8 ship of Flankers with say, 12 CUDA's with another 12 waiting in the wings promises to lay waste to larger formations of enemy jets, and the price of using those CUDA's is going to be a hell of a lot less than losing 8 Flankers. Russia or China would go broke in a hurry given that dynamic.

Even assuming they had the money, they wouldn't be able to build jets fast enough to replace them
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gc

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 15:47

Fighters are no satellites or ballistic missiles which are delicate and move at some ridiculous speed that makes destruction reassured with a direct hit. Hits on wings or less vital areas might not lead to destruction as we can see how fighters not infrequently RTB following midair collisions. So i am not entirely convinced how an energy depleted missile can complete the last step of a kill chain. My concern is that one gets lodge in those huge flankers and RTB. Think how heat seeking tech is gifted to the communists in the past.
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popcorn

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 15:54

gc wrote:Fighters are no satellites or ballistic missiles which are delicate and move at some ridiculous speed that makes destruction reassured with a direct hit. Hits on wings or less vital areas might not lead to destruction as we can see how fighters not infrequently RTB following midair collisions. So i am not entirely convinced how an energy depleted missile can complete the last step of a kill chain. My concern is that one gets lodge in those huge flankers and RTB. Think how heat seeking tech is gifted to the communists in the past.

Note that having a HE warhead on that Sidewinder in question did not prevent the tech from falling into enemy hands. :devil:
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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gc

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 15:59

popcorn wrote:
gc wrote:Fighters are no satellites or ballistic missiles which are delicate and move at some ridiculous speed that makes destruction reassured with a direct hit. Hits on wings or less vital areas might not lead to destruction as we can see how fighters not infrequently RTB following midair collisions. So i am not entirely convinced how an energy depleted missile can complete the last step of a kill chain. My concern is that one gets lodge in those huge flankers and RTB. Think how heat seeking tech is gifted to the communists in the past.

Note that having a HE warhead on that Sidewinder in question did not prevent the tech from falling into enemy hands. :devil:


True! but at least we tried our best!
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quicksilver

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Unread post24 Jan 2019, 17:07

Note section 13.4.2.2 about abf warheads.

https://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/fun/part13.htm
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popcorn

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 01:17

Weren't they researching a/c cannon firing frangible ammo that did not require HE to achieve fragmentation effects? Maybe they could do the same with CUDA...
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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southernphantom

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 02:41

popcorn wrote:Weren't they researching a/c cannon firing frangible ammo that did not require HE to achieve fragmentation effects? Maybe they could do the same with CUDA...


A casing packed with sintered metal would definitely do a number to an airframe on impact, sort of like a 12ga breaching round.
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sferrin

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 15:21

southernphantom wrote:
popcorn wrote:Weren't they researching a/c cannon firing frangible ammo that did not require HE to achieve fragmentation effects? Maybe they could do the same with CUDA...


A casing packed with sintered metal would definitely do a number to an airframe on impact, sort of like a 12ga breaching round.


No, no, no. Needs to be birdshot encased in wax. :wink:
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element1loop

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 15:26

Aim for the pilot's seat.
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sferrin

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 15:41

element1loop wrote:Aim for the pilot's seat.


Some already do that supposedly. CUDA would do the same I presume.
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ricnunes

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 16:28

Please forgive me about this post of mine since it completely lacks any technical or otherwise useful information about the CUDA missile but it contains (IMO) a funny consideration about the name CUDA:

In Portuguese CUDA sounds like "cu da" which literally means "a$$ of".

For example "aunt's a$$" would be translated to Portuguese as "cu da tia".

Perhaps if LM plans to someday export the missile to Portugal (or other Portuguese speaking countries) they should consider changing the missile's name (I'm joking here, of course) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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SpudmanWP

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 16:52

sferrin wrote:
southernphantom wrote:
popcorn wrote:Weren't they researching a/c cannon firing frangible ammo that did not require HE to achieve fragmentation effects? Maybe they could do the same with CUDA...


A casing packed with sintered metal would definitely do a number to an airframe on impact, sort of like a 12ga breaching round.


No, no, no. Needs to be birdshot encased in wax. :wink:

It likely contains the same "Lethality Enhancer" warhead that it's PAC-3 daddy had.
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sferrin

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 17:09

SpudmanWP wrote:It likely contains the same "Lethality Enhancer" warhead that it's PAC-3 daddy had.


I don't know anything specific about its "lethality enhancer" but I wonder if it's something just big enough to break up the airframe (so all the energy is transferred when going after an aircraft, instead of just punching a hole through it), or something more. See 0:19 here:

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SpudmanWP

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Unread post25 Jan 2019, 18:15

That is exactly what it is.

The Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) provides performance enhancements to the battle-proven Patriot Advanced Capability – 3 (PAC-3) missile which will counter evolving threat advancements. Aerojet Rocketdyne has qualified a larger advanced two-pulse solid rocket motor for the MSE upgrade. Aerojet Rocketdyne has also qualified the Lethality Enhancer (LE) for the MSE missile. The LE is a small directional warhead that launches a stream of low-speed steel fragments in the direction of the target in order to enhance the kill probability for certain target types. These MSE upgrades will support both the existing PATRIOT systems. The MSE missile is also the baseline interceptor for the multi-national Medium Extended Air Defense System (MEADS).

https://www.rocket.com/patriot-pac-3-mse

Here is a pic that shows the "Lethality Enhancer" warhead in the core of the divert engine cluster.
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