RQ-4N/MQ-4C Shot Down

Sub-scale and Full-Scale Aerial Targets and RPAs - Remotely-Piloted Aircraft
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blain

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 10:19

This is bad on so many levels. Media reports suggested it maybe an MQ-4C Triton, but may in fact be a technology demonstrator.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... hawk-drone

I will address the concept of the MQ-4C. I think this is maybe another ill conceived Navy weapon system and the Iranians may have done the Navy a favor.

The Triton was suppose to provide maritime surveillance at altitude with a variety of sensors including a multi functional X band AESA radar and SIGINT/ELINT receivers. It also had the ability to drop down in altitude to use an EO/IR sensor to capture imagery of targets at sea or in the littorals. We don't know how the drone was shot down or what it was doing. But perhaps the Navy now understands why the AF ceased producing the Global Hawk and developed the RQ-180. I have long thought that the Navy should buy into the program.

At the very least, if the Navy intends to purchase a $100 million surveillance drone it needs to have it remain at altitude and insure it remains out of the enemy's threat envelope. If it needs to investigate targets of interest at lower altitudes it needs to use a less costly aircraft like the MQ-9.

As indicated by the comments of the CNO, the Navy seems to be more skeptical of stealth technology than the AF. Perhaps this will change this attitude.
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sferrin

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 12:52

blain wrote:But perhaps the Navy now understands why the AF ceased producing the Global Hawk and developed the RQ-180.


There's no evidence the "RQ-180" is even a real aircraft.
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hythelday

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 15:00

The aircraft shot down was RQ-4A BAMS-DÖ

https://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/STATEMENT ... hootsuite/

TAMPA, Fla., June 20, 2019 —

"U.S. Central Command can confirm that a U.S. Navy Broad Area Maritime Surveillance (or BAMS-D) ISR aircraft was shot down by an Iranian surface-to-air missile system while operating in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz at approximately 11:35 p.m. GMT on June 19, 2019.

Iranian reports that the aircraft was over Iran are false.

This was an unprovoked attack on a U.S. surveillance asset in international airspace.

The BAMS-D is a RQ-4A Global Hawk High-Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) Unmanned Aircraft System (UAS) and provides real-time intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance missions (ISR) over vast ocean and coastal regions."

- Attributable to Navy Capt. Bill Urban, U.S. Central Command spokesman


Iran says homegrown "Third of Khordad" R-SAM used to bring it down. Looks similar to SA-11 to me.

http://en.farsnews.com/13980330000419

A US-made Global Hawk spy drone was shot down by the IRGC on the Southern coasts of Iran in Hormozgan province today, using its powerful air defense system named Third of Khordad.

The IRGC announced in a statement early Thursday that the US-made Global Hawk surveillance drone was brought down by its Air Force near the Kouh-e Mobarak region in the Central district of Jask after the aircraft violated Iran's airspace.

The RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned aircraft system (UAS) can fly at high altitudes for more than 30 hours, gathering near-real-time, high-resolution imagery of large areas of land in all types of weather.

Meantime, a US official said a US Navy MQ-4C Triton high-altitude drone was shot down by Iranian surface-to-air missile.

The IRGC Aerospace Force unveiled the Third of Khordad air defense system with the capability to trace four targets and destroy them with eight missiles all at once in 2014.

The Third of Khordad air defense system which was completely designed and manufactured by Iranian experts was unveiled during the Supreme Leader's tour of the IRGC's Aerospace Exhibition, where state-of-the-art equipment and hardware were showcased.

The Third of Khordad air defense system was manufactured in 18 months and can trace all types of flying targets within a range of 75 kilometers.

The Third of Khordad air defense system can trace and target fighter jets, bombers and cruise missiles up to 27,000 meters (81,000ft) high. All its components have been placed in a vehicle and its radar, tracing and missile-launching systems have been improved.

An IRGC Aerospace Force commander said in 2014 that the defense system can be compared to the sophisticated S-300 long-range air-defense missile shield, adding that its range will be increased to 100km and then 200km in future.
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citanon

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 17:51

Iran's claim that the Triton entered into its airspace is patently ridiculous unless it was maliciously diverted. The Triton probably shows up on radar like a barn door. Who would be stupid enough to fly it over Iranian territory.

This is clearly a part of Iran's hybrid warfare strategy to encroach on freedom of shipping in the straits of Hormuz. Might even be trying to create a gap in surveillance to start mining the straits.
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hythelday

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 19:09

What's so hybrid about blasting civilian ships and shooting down non-brlligerent aircraft in international airspace? That's an all in slap in a face saying: "whatcha gonna do?"
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citanon

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Unread post20 Jun 2019, 20:19

But then they deny it was in international air space or that they attached the mine.

it's transparent to the clear eyes but it slows down the decision cycle and gives cover for useful idiots to do their work.
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madrat

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 01:29

I don't expect much to be visible of Iran's navy the Sunday.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 11:44

Trump approved Iranian strike before pulling back: report

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... york-times

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/20/worl ... drone.html

https://thehill.com/homenews/morning-re ... ing-report

President Trump approved a military strike against Iran on Thursday in response to the downing of a drone before eventually pulling back, according to a report from The New York Times.

The New York Times reported that as late as 7 p.m., military and diplomatic officials were expecting the military strike before dawn on Friday on a series of targets including radar and missile batteries.

The strike was called off but the Times reported that it was unclear if Trump changed his mind or the administration changed its strategy on Iran.
Last edited by marsavian on 21 Jun 2019, 13:22, edited 3 times in total.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 12:29

Trump warned Tehran a U.S. attack was imminent, called for talks: Iranian officials

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mide ... SKCN1TL07P

DUBAI (Reuters) - Iranian officials told Reuters on Friday that Tehran had received a message from U.S. President Donald Trump warning that a U.S. attack on Iran was imminent but saying he was against war and wanted talks on a range of issues.

News of the message, delivered through Oman overnight, came shortly after the New York Times said Trump had approved military strikes against Iran on Friday over the downing of a U.S. surveillance drone, but called them off at the last minute.

“In his message, Trump said he was against any war with Iran and wanted to talk to Tehran about various issues,” one of the officials told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

“He gave a short period of time to get our response but Iran’s immediate response was that it is up to Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Ali) Khamenei to decide about this issue,” the source said.

A second Iranian official said: “We made it clear that the leader is against any talks, but the message will be conveyed to him to make a decision.

“However, we told the Omani official that any attack against Iran will have regional and international consequences.”
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 12:49

https://www.apnews.com/27a52121ae774abd89269bf84e863288

8:55 a.m.

The head of the Revolutionary Guard’s aerospace division says a manned U.S. spy plane was near the drone it shot down but Iran chose not to target it.

Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh made the comment Friday at a news conference attended by The Associated Press in Tehran.

The Guard shot down a U.S. Navy RQ-4A Global Hawk on Thursday.

Hajizadeh said: “At the same moment, another spy aircraft called a P8 was flying close to this drone. That aircraft is manned and has around 35 crew members. Well, we could have targeted that plane, it was our right to do so, and yes it was American, but we didn’t do it. We hit the unmanned aircraft.”

The U.S. military’s Central Command did not immediate respond to a request for comment.

6:15 a.m.

The head of the Revolutionary Guard’s aerospace division says Iran had warned a U.S. military surveillance drone several times before launching a missile at it.

Gen. Amir Ali Hajizadeh made the comment in an interview with Iranian state television on Friday. Debris from what Iranian authorities described as pieces of the U.S. Navy RQ-4A Global Hawk lay behind him.

Hajizadeh told state TV: “Unfortunately they did not answer.”

He added Iran collected the debris from its territorial waters. The U.S. military says that the drone was in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz when it was shot down.

The shootdown of the drone has escalated already heightened tensions between the U.S. and Iran.

5:35 a.m.

Iranian state television’s website has published images it says show debris from the U.S. military surveillance drone that Iran shot down the previous day.

The pictures show what appears to be the skin of the U.S. Navy RQ-4A Global Hawk. Iranian state television did not say where the debris was filmed.

The photographs did not show any circuit boards, wiring or electronic equipment.

An Iranian surface-to-air missile fired early Thursday brought down the RQ-4A Global Hawk, an unmanned aircraft with a wingspan larger than a Boeing 737 jetliner and costing over $100 million. The U.S. said it made plans for limited strikes on Iran in response, but then called them off.

The shootdown has further escalated tensions between Iran the U.S. as Tehran’s nuclear deal with world powers unravels.
Last edited by marsavian on 21 Jun 2019, 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
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marsavian

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 14:42

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

President Donald Trump said the US military was "cocked and loaded to retaliate" against Iran, but he changed his mind 10 minutes before planned strikes.

Attacks on three sites were planned in response to the shooting down of a US unmanned drone on Monday.

Mr Trump said he called off the strikes when he was told 150 people would die.

He tweeted: "10 minutes before the strike I stopped it, not proportionate to shooting down an unmanned drone".
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tomcattech

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Unread post21 Jun 2019, 21:35

Tin Foil Hat Time....

Remember when Iran captured and landed an RQ-170?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%8 ... 0_incident

Remember when it was announced that Northrop Grumman may use the RQ-4 as a "translator" for MADL, IFDL and Link-16?

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2017/08 ... hawk-uavs/

Maybe they tried to grab it, get it close to shore... figured out they couldn't land it and shot it down trying to get the hardware.
(Update: They seem to have the wreckage now)

Lots of interesting what-ifs here....
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Dragon029

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Unread post22 Jun 2019, 15:28

I think the more likely answer is that it was just never in Iranian airspace; the recently disclosed footage of the RQ-4 being shot down (as shown from the EO/IR turret of a P-8) shows that the P-8 was flying even closer to Iranian airspace.

As for the RQ-170, I'm still doubtful about whether it was ever really spoofed or 'hacked' into landing in Iran; not too long after the capture there was an AFM mention of an airman getting an award for getting an RQ-170 out of a deep stall via manual control, following its air data sensors failing and causing the autopilot to misbehave.
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marsavian

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Unread post23 Jun 2019, 07:41

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citanon

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Unread post24 Jun 2019, 00:57

Problem with a cyber attack is that you use it you can quickly lose the back door.
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