Navy F/A-18E crashes in Inyo County [star wars canyon]

Military aircraft accidents/mishaps.
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quicksilver

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Unread post02 Aug 2019, 17:37

outlaw162 wrote:
Otherwise - without details - speculation is useless.


Consider me as uselessly speculating for the 7 folks with 2nd degree burns.

Looking at the spectacular Google earth pics, and considering all the discussion on this forum about 5th gen thinking and glorious systems to preserve assets for 5th gen ops, is there then really a legitimate requirement for this type of ultra-low level training in this day and age?

Not an unreasonable question to ask of all the experts here, I would venture. Enlighten me.


A more than fair question. You’re not the first to ask (just the most recent) — and with it — ‘how low’, ‘how many flights (for a qual of some kind), ‘how often’ (refly interval) and, (probably the biggest one) ‘why in the jet’ (as opposed to the sim)?

You’ll get some very emotional responses from some.
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spazsinbad

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Unread post02 Aug 2019, 21:24

Sidewinder Low Level Route - Jedi Transition - Star Wars Canyon:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org ... 58a1df.jpg
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StarWarsSidewinderLowLevelRouteMAPsmall.gif
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post03 Aug 2019, 05:12

Name of USN Pilot killed in the crash and other details:
Navy Identifies Pilot Killed in Death Valley Super Hornet Crash
02 Aug 2019 Sam LaGrone

"Lt. Charles Walker, 33, died when his F/A-18E Super Hornet crashed about 40 miles north of Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, Calif. He was on a training mission over a canyon at the national park when the crash occurred. Walker was assigned to the “Vigilantes” of Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 151, based at Naval Air Station Lemoore, Calif....

...A Navy summary of the crash reviewed by USNI News said the aircraft impacted against the side of the canyon wall during low altitude training. The crash occurred in the so-called “Star Wars” canyon at Death Valley – a popular spot for military aviation photographers. The National Park Service said that seven people suffered minor injuries as a result of the crash. An investigation into the crash is ongoing.

Walker had reported to the squadron in February 2018, shortly after the Vigilantes had returned from a deployment aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN-74), according to his official Navy biography. Prior to the assignment, Walker had been assigned to the Strike Fighter Weapons School Pacific at NAS Lemoore. He had also been assigned to the “Dambuster” Strike Fighter Squadron 195 as part of the Navy’s forward-deployed Carrier Air Wing 5 based at Marine Corps Air Station Iwakuni, Japan." He commissioned in late 2008 shortly before graduating from Embry Riddle Aeronautical University in Florida...."

Source: https://news.usni.org/2019/08/02/navy-i ... rnet-crash
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post04 Aug 2019, 15:54

Attachments
StarWarsCrashSite.jpg
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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outlaw162

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Unread post04 Aug 2019, 21:30

From the PDF:

The SIDEWINDER and JEDI Transition are not published MTRs.


(MTR = Military Training Route)

For non-Edwards AFB or NAS China Lake units is there some sort of MOU involved or can anyone use the route at their discretion?
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AFD-150213-040.pdf
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Unread post04 Aug 2019, 22:50

Been a while since I flew there. Airspace is part of the Edwards/China Lake complex, some of it Restricted, some (most) of it MOAs (at least up north). The airspace used to be scheduled usage only...can’t imagine it has become less so.

For those unfamiliar — https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publica ... n_5.2.html
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Unread post04 Aug 2019, 23:13

https://www.google.com/search?q=The+cra ... ss&ie=&oe=

This news report replicated in a lot of places - video worth watching:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-01/ ... k/11375042

I'm not sure of exact location however one may see a Super Hornet flying down the valley briefly. I'll look for Dafydd Phillips YouTube videos....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dafydd+ ... ss&ie=&oe=
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LowFlyingStarWarsScreenie.jpg
Last edited by spazsinbad on 04 Aug 2019, 23:22, edited 1 time in total.
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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outlaw162

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Unread post04 Aug 2019, 23:21

The airspace used to be scheduled usage only


Yeah, I would be sure it's scheduled usage only now. We (actually I) used to be the scheduling authority for 2 VR's, 1 IR and a MOA. I was just curious as to who could schedule a non-published MTR. Innocent question.

Thank you for referencing the FAA. :D
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 00:15

outlaw162 wrote:
The airspace used to be scheduled usage only


Yeah, I would be sure it's scheduled usage only now. We (actually I) used to be the scheduling authority for 2 VR's, 1 IR and a MOA. I was just curious as to who could schedule a non-published MTR. Innocent question.

Thank you for referencing the FAA. :D


The airspace usage is scheduled; route usage (as noted) relies on procedural control — my take being that anyone who is scheduled for the airspace can use the “route(s)” — compliance with published procedures above assumed.
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 00:22

Have F110, Block 70, will travel
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 00:22

spazsinbad wrote:https://www.google.com/search?q=The+crash+sent+dark+smoke+billowing+in+the+air,+said+Aaron+Cassell&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=

This news report replicated in a lot of places - video worth watching:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-01/ ... k/11375042

I'm not sure of exact location however one may see a Super Hornet flying down the valley briefly. I'll look for Dafydd Phillips YouTube videos....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Dafydd+ ... ss&ie=&oe=


Like all canyon flying, it’s pretty easy to scrape oneself off on the rocks under ones belly in a turn.
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 01:51

my take being that anyone who is scheduled for the airspace can use the “route(s)”


That may well be the case, but a bit of plain language not requiring interpretation would leave no doubt. Maybe it is written clearly in some other document.

I can see the possibility that in a Rev 3 one may get further clarification on the intent of the phrase 'for local use only' also.

I learned a long time ago that accidents drive the majority of the content in entire manuals (60-16s for example).....And changes to those manuals occurred quite often.

(beautiful shadows in the video)
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 02:07

R-2508 References —

https://www.edwards.af.mil/Home/R-2508/

Note User Brief, User Handbook, and Pilot Guide...
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Unread post05 Aug 2019, 03:12

From what I've read, you are entirely correct. Scheduling of the airspace does include the option of using the Sidewinder as long as it's noted in the Remarks section of the DD-175. Put me in coach.

I hope there won't be a test on this.
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Unread post07 Aug 2019, 12:18

Four minute video with 'best bits'? from the three minute mark YMMV - mostly Super Hornets flying through recently.

Star Wars Canyon Day 1 July 8th 2019 [from 3 min mark best] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3H9LLMWe60

RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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