Russian SU-30's getting SU-35 upgrade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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mixelflick

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Unread post24 Mar 2019, 14:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5sdjx1GY10

Reports here of updating Russian's SU-30 fleet with the SU-35's radar, weapons and engine. Obviously, this also has implications for India's SU-30MKI's and Malaysia's SU-30MKK's. However, I don't feel this extends to Chinese birds, as it sounds like they're going all in with the J-16.

While this will increase Russia's Flanker fleet capabilities, I see it as further evidence that the SU-57 isn't happening anytime soon. They seem enamored with the SU-35 and what it brings to the table. It also may be a tip of the hat to the fact they don't have to $ for brand new SU-35's.

Thoughts?
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talkitron

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Unread post24 Mar 2019, 16:17

The listed original source is a written article. I skipped the video but competition between Irkut and Knaapo is always an interesting dimension. The Su-35 comes from Knaapo in the Pacific part of Russia while the Su-30SM comes from Irkut in the central region. Using some of the Su-35 components on Su-30SMs helps Irkut compete, I suppose. India gets its Su-30MKI parts from Irkut, I believe.

http://tass.com/defense/1046519
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madrat

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Unread post24 Mar 2019, 22:12

Su-30SM already had a superior radar with a second guy aboard to control it. The Su-35S enjoys better engines and little else.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post25 Mar 2019, 01:41

madrat wrote:Su-30SM already had a superior radar with a second guy aboard to control it. The Su-35S enjoys better engines and little else.



While, both are nothing but "fodder" for the F-22 and/or F-35. :?
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milosh

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Unread post25 Mar 2019, 07:51

madrat wrote:Su-30SM already had a superior radar with a second guy aboard to control it. The Su-35S enjoys better engines and little else.


What radar SU-30SM have? I thought it have N011M which is lot less capable then N035 in Su-35?
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weasel1962

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Unread post25 Mar 2019, 10:17

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swiss

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Unread post25 Mar 2019, 19:02

milosh wrote:
madrat wrote:Su-30SM already had a superior radar with a second guy aboard to control it. The Su-35S enjoys better engines and little else.


What radar SU-30SM have? I thought it have N011M which is lot less capable then N035 in Su-35?


You are right. It has roughly the same performance like the bars in the Su-30 MKI. Which means the Irbis-E has over 100% more range in cued search and also several times better resolution in SAR mode.

Bars MKI

https://web.archive.org/web/20170706201 ... rlsu-bars/

Bars SM

https://www.niip.ru/catalog/eksportnaya ... siya/bars/

Irbis-E

https://www.niip.ru/catalog/eksportnaya ... u-irbis-e/
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milosh

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Unread post26 Mar 2019, 12:27

mixelflick wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5sdjx1GY10

Reports here of updating Russian's SU-30 fleet with the SU-35's radar, weapons and engine. Obviously, this also has implications for India's SU-30MKI's and Malaysia's SU-30MKK's. However, I don't feel this extends to Chinese birds, as it sounds like they're going all in with the J-16.

While this will increase Russia's Flanker fleet capabilities, I see it as further evidence that the SU-57 isn't happening anytime soon. They seem enamored with the SU-35 and what it brings to the table. It also may be a tip of the hat to the fact they don't have to $ for brand new SU-35's.

Thoughts?


I don't think there is price difference between both planes. As two seater Su-30 is better for multi role that is why they need it.
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mixelflick

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Unread post26 Mar 2019, 13:22

No price difference? I find that hard to believe..

The SU-35 is an almost completely new bird. Bigger (lighter) airframe, new engines, new radar, new E/W system. Those things don't come cheap. In fact, they are the most expensive parts of any aircraft.
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milosh

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Unread post26 Mar 2019, 19:31

mixelflick wrote:No price difference? I find that hard to believe..

The SU-35 is an almost completely new bird. Bigger (lighter) airframe, new engines, new radar, new E/W system. Those things don't come cheap. In fact, they are the most expensive parts of any aircraft.


Su-30 is bigger, and it have canards. Engines are same because new Su-30 they are buying are with AL-41 engines. So no difference there. Radar will be upgraded with Su-35 radar tech. That all you have in text available on thread. BTW Su-35 order cost was similar as older Su-30 orders so I really doubt Su-35 cost more then upgraded Su-30.

Su-30 is two seater and new AF commander want more A-G capability so new Su-30 is what he want. Upgraded Su-34 would be even better but radar isn't compatible with Su-35 radar and Su-34 wasn't exported.

With upgraded Su-30 they will have nice offer for other Su-30 users.
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madrat

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Unread post26 Mar 2019, 20:00

Su-30SM has been getting incremental enhancement since 2011. Russia just stopped being so open about the changes. You find little documentation about the Panda program.
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swiss

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Unread post27 Mar 2019, 15:05

madrat wrote:Su-30SM has been getting incremental enhancement since 2011. Russia just stopped being so open about the changes. You find little documentation about the Panda program.


Are you sure you mean the SM? The Su-30 Sm had her maiden flight in September 2012. So there can't be en enhancement since 2011. And if the N011M-R is so superior, there would be no need to upgrade the Radar from the SM to a Su-35 level. According to the manufacturer its a bit better then the N011M. But still far away from the irbis-E.

https://translate.google.ch/translate?h ... %2Fbars%2F

https://translate.google.ch/translate?h ... u-irbis%2F
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mixelflick

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Unread post27 Mar 2019, 16:38

milosh wrote:
mixelflick wrote:No price difference? I find that hard to believe..

The SU-35 is an almost completely new bird. Bigger (lighter) airframe, new engines, new radar, new E/W system. Those things don't come cheap. In fact, they are the most expensive parts of any aircraft.


Su-30 is bigger, and it have canards. Engines are same because new Su-30 they are buying are with AL-41 engines. So no difference there. Radar will be upgraded with Su-35 radar tech. That all you have in text available on thread. BTW Su-35 order cost was similar as older Su-30 orders so I really doubt Su-35 cost more then upgraded Su-30.

Su-30 is two seater and new AF commander want more A-G capability so new Su-30 is what he want. Upgraded Su-34 would be even better but radar isn't compatible with Su-35 radar and Su-34 wasn't exported.

With upgraded Su-30 they will have nice offer for other Su-30 users.


They are similar sized, but the SU-35 carries over 5,000lbs more fuel and larger/more capable by several important measures. This capability comes with a higher price tag, at least according to Wiki..

SU-30: 37.5 Million
SU-35: 65 Million

Now, with respect to up-engining the SU-30, new radars etc I can understand your point: Sounds like they want a more robust multi-role capability. This is really interesting, isn't it?

Best I can tell, they have around 150 each of SU-30SM, SU-35 and the SU-34.

I thought the SU-34 was to be the air to ground workhorse, sort of like the F-15E? Perhaps they think 150 isn't enough?

I dunno. Personally, I think they have plenty of striking power between the TU-22M, TU-160, the Bear's cruise missiles, the SU-34 and what appear to be plentiful SU-24 Fencers. The real shortfall in my eyes is air superiority. The SU-35 is a phenomenal fighter, the SU-30 too. But they are 4 plus plus gens in a increasingly 5th gen world. I'd imagine it can be un-nerving, zipping around in your SU-35 while not knowing where the nearest F-35 (or AMRAAM) is...
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Unread post27 Mar 2019, 20:52

Best I can tell, they have around 150 each of SU-30SM, SU-35 and the SU-34.


124 Su-34, 114 Su-30SM (VVS & Naval units), 78 Su-35S as of roughly the end of 2018. Most surprising is the production rate of the Su-35S ~12 per year, little higher lately with deliveries to China.
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Unread post28 Mar 2019, 01:07

fbw wrote:
Best I can tell, they have around 150 each of SU-30SM, SU-35 and the SU-34.


124 Su-34, 114 Su-30SM (VVS & Naval units), 78 Su-35S as of roughly the end of 2018. Most surprising is the production rate of the Su-35S ~12 per year, little higher lately with deliveries to China.


No Mig-35?
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