Russian Aircraft Carrier Accident

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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rheonomic

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 03:27

Corsair1963 wrote:I am surprised China hasn't tried to acquire the Admiral Kuznetsov??? (at least that we know of)


Why would they even want it? It's (partially) self-transporting salvage.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 04:08

rheonomic wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I am surprised China hasn't tried to acquire the Admiral Kuznetsov??? (at least that we know of)


Why would they even want it? It's (partially) self-transporting salvage.



She is in far better condition than the ex-Varyag. That China acquired from Ukraine and rebuilt as the Liaoning.

Plus, the added benefit is both are of the same class and closely related to the New Type-001A Aircraft Carrier. Which, is just about ready to enter service.


So, by acquiring the Admiral Kuznetsov from Russia. The PLAN could have three large Ski Jump Carriers in service in the next few years. Which, will be added by a forth conventional carrier with both Catapults and Arresting Gear. Which, would enter service about the same time.

This would greatly help the PLAN close the Carrier Gap with the USN.
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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 12:48

Kustenov is in much better condition than the Liaong? That's a scary proposition!

Even assuming 3 ski jump carriers plus a conventional boat, that still only brings them to 4 vs. what, 11 or so American? 7 more carriers is no small amount, and that doesn't take into account our amphibious assault ships. They can now carry F-35's, so are some of the most capable carriers in the world.

China is no doubt making great strides in naval operations, but in terms of carriers is still well behind the US IMO..
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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 13:45

A single US Navy carrier is likely more capable than several of those STOBAR carriers in Chinese Navy. Simply because they can launch and recover aircraft far more often and keep up much higher operational tempo. Also aircraft can take off with a lot of weapons, fuel and equipment. AFAIK, J-15s can take only take off with light weapons and fuel load.

So I'd say that there will be pretty significant Carrier Gap between USA and China for decades to come, but Chinese Navy is definitely quite powerful compared to any other navy in the world and having those carriers give them nice capabilities and flexibility against all other potential adversaries.
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sferrin

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 14:21

Corsair1963 wrote:
rheonomic wrote:
Corsair1963 wrote:I am surprised China hasn't tried to acquire the Admiral Kuznetsov??? (at least that we know of)


Why would they even want it? It's (partially) self-transporting salvage.



She is in far better condition than the ex-Varyag. That China acquired from Ukraine and rebuilt as the Liaoning.


Where'd you hear that?
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sferrin

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 14:22

hornetfinn wrote:A single US Navy carrier is likely more capable than several of those STOBAR carriers in Chinese Navy. Simply because they can launch and recover aircraft far more often and keep up much higher operational tempo. Also aircraft can take off with a lot of weapons, fuel and equipment. AFAIK, J-15s can take only take off with light weapons and fuel load.

So I'd say that there will be pretty significant Carrier Gap between USA and China for decades to come, but Chinese Navy is definitely quite powerful compared to any other navy in the world and having those carriers give them nice capabilities and flexibility against all other potential adversaries.


China is already building carrier #3 in a new shipyard built specifically for carrier building. (And they still have the yard the first two carriers were built in.)
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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 15:34

hornetfinn wrote:AFAIK, J-15s can take only take off with light weapons and fuel load.


That's if the J-15 takes off from the front 2 spots. "Light" weapons generally refers to A2A load out.

For higher TOW, the J-15 can launch from further back.

As to sortie rates, there is no empirical evidence suggesting a significant difference based on aircraft ratios. The cvn carries double the aircraft but is the sortie generation much more than double?

The cvn limit eg surge of 270-300 sorties a day is limited more by fuel. I don't see why the j-15s can't do 3 sorties a day from a Liaoning.
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geforcerfx

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 17:24

sferrin wrote:
China is already building carrier #3 in a new shipyard built specifically for carrier building. (And they still have the yard the first two carriers were built in.)


I believe they are using that yard for there LHAs they are building.
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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 17:49

geforcerfx wrote:
sferrin wrote:
China is already building carrier #3 in a new shipyard built specifically for carrier building. (And they still have the yard the first two carriers were built in.)


I believe they are using that yard for there LHAs they are building.


Any info on those?
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geforcerfx

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Unread post25 Jun 2019, 21:17

scratch that type 075 is being built by Hudong–Zhonghua, so prob being built in southern china, i think the carriers are built up north.

Info on type 075 is scarce and changes a good amount, seems similar to wasp class with more amphibious focus and less aviation focus.
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seems like they want to fit 3 LCACs in there's not just 2. A bunch of concept art also shows up to 12 fighters of a stealthy look, so maybe ambitions to make a light stovl stealth fighter some day(good luck).
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Unread post26 Jun 2019, 00:41

Current CV 002 modules are being built at a new yard at Changxing island, near Shanghai located at 31°20'42"N 121°45'22"E.

The 075 is being built in Shanghai at a facility along the Huangpu river located at 31°16'50"N 121°34'07"E.

The 001A was built at a dry dock in Dalian located at 38°56'09"N 121°36'47"E. That dock is smaller than the ones in Shanghai.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post26 Jun 2019, 02:46

sferrin wrote:

She is in far better condition than the ex-Varyag. That China acquired from Ukraine and rebuilt as the Liaoning.


Where'd you hear that?[/quote]


Really??? The Varyag was totally neglected for over a decade and was in extremely poor condition when she finally arrived in China. The Admiral Kuznetsov was in active service during the same period. While, not in excellent condition or refitted to Western Standards. She clearly was in far better shape than the ex-Varyag.

Honestly, to suggest otherwise is absurd.... :doh:

QUOTE:

China’s Dalian Shipyard refitted the 65,000t ex-Soviet Navy aircraft carrier Varyag (previously Riga), which the “Chong Lot Travel Agency” acquired from the Ukraine in 1998 for $20 million. She was in in extremely poor condition, as one might expect of any ship after a decade or more of serious neglect.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ch ... sia-02806/


V1A.jpg


V1B.jpg


V1C.png
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sferrin

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Unread post26 Jun 2019, 13:11

Corsair1963 wrote:Really??? The Varyag was totally neglected for over a decade and was in extremely poor condition when she finally arrived in China. The Admiral Kuznetsov was in active service during the same period. While, not in excellent condition or refitted to Western Standards. She clearly was in far better shape than the ex-Varyag.

Honestly, to suggest otherwise is absurd.... :doh:


So you don't actually know anything, you're just assuming. They stripped it back to the bare metal and rebuilt from there. That's why it's as sea far more often than the Kuznetsov.

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News ... 561460566/
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pmi

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Unread post26 Jun 2019, 13:48

sferrin wrote:So you don't actually know anything, you're just assuming. They stripped it back to the bare metal and rebuilt from there. That's why it's as sea far more often than the Kuznetsov.


He is saying that the Kuznetsov is currently in better condition than the Varyag was when she was acquired by the Chinese.

That being said I think the odds of the Chinese being interested in her is slim to none at this point.
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sferrin

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Unread post26 Jun 2019, 15:30

pmi wrote:
sferrin wrote:So you don't actually know anything, you're just assuming. They stripped it back to the bare metal and rebuilt from there. That's why it's as sea far more often than the Kuznetsov.


He is saying that the Kuznetsov is currently in better condition than the Varyag was when she was acquired by the Chinese.


Okay, THAT makes sense. :thanks:
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