SU-57 deployed to Syria

[geforcerfx]

How on earth do you develop small quantities of a stealthy, supercruising sensor/shooter with integrated avionics and world class dogfighter (complete with all new weapons) - for an asking price of $50 million?

Governent imposed price controls. Something that is virtually impossible in the West.

Which results in cut corners and poor quality, all bad traits to a advanced aircraft trying to have some stealth in the design.

Russian can only control so much of the cost, they can't founder modern processors so they are buying those out of Taiwan and China which puts them at there mercy for cost. I haven't found a single Russian company that designs ASICs or FPGAs so they are prob going to rely on standard multipurpose CPUs for most of the processing.

If the aircraft is going to cost $50 million it will be significantly less stealthy than it's western counter parts, it will have more basic engines until they decide to fund the new ones into the fleet and it will be maybe 25% of the sensor and networking capabilities of western and Chinese aircraft. The cost advantage they have over the west if they were building a apples to apples fighter is labor cost, engineers are a lot cheaper and there factory workers make around 1/4 what American and European workers do. But China can beat them there and are trying to make a apples to apples fighter fleet with the west, and they have the tech know how to get there.

[wrightwing]

The simple answer is that the Su-57 won't cost $50 million. It's far more likely to be >$100 million.

[vilters]

If they are "smart", what I doubt. . . . . The Su-50's will be free. => Because they aren't gonna go in production.
What is the "+" value compared to a 27-35 series A/C? ? ? ? Newer metal?

Wait 10 more years for the engines? The design will be obsolete by then.

Be strong ;
Cut the cheese right here and right now, and start all over again on a clean sheet of paper.

But? They are Russians, and given a few dozen wodka's, they are not smart at all.

[vilters]

Don't know how close any of you guys have been to Recent build Mig or Su fighter aircraft, but they can not get even the most basic things together.

If you see how panels are joined. How Rivets are placed. How "visible" bolts hold the thing together. The gaps between panels, the lack of finishing, the rust and oxidation?

Do I have to continue?
Unfinished external panels overlapping. Best example I ever got was the CLT of a Mig-29.
That was a mechanical wonder.

Soms welds. Really? Are you serious?
Cockpit ergonomics. That pilot needs 2 heads and 6 hands to get it all done.

Maintenace is simple.
A screwdriver, some pliers and most of all : A solid hammer.

But? And that has to be said. They are solid.
Fuel, oil and air in the tires, and they are good untill overhould or crash whichever comes first.

[vilters]

Oh, another thing that brings out a smile every time.

On the Mig -29, they forgot to build wash-out in the wing.
Solution?
Fly with the ailerons some degrees UP all the time. Funny guys those Russians.

[awsome]

"Learn something new".
A basic primer.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _CT468.pdf[/quote]


Actually read it and you will see where the worlds problems lie. Anyone who may be an economic competitor is seen by those setting American policy as "being at war" with America. f@%king psychos...

[white_lightning35]

"Learn something new".
A basic primer.
https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/p ... _CT468.pdf

Actually read it and you will see where the worlds problems lie. Anyone who may be an economic competitor is seen by those setting American policy as "being at war" with America. f@%king psychos...[/quote]

I'm curious; did you actually read the paper? It is not about Russia being an economic competitor. Russia is nowhere close to being an economic competitor. Its economy is smaller than that of Texas alone. But that is not important here.

Russia is a cold, soggy leftover of the USSR that still retains some of its military and diplomatic clout. The Russians believe they can make up for the loss by engaging in what the your link talks about: hybrid warfare. Russia has many clever people left over who want to return the Motherland to its former glory, and they realize they can't do it conventionally. Hence wearing down the other countries slowly and surely, sowing discord.

And please don't pretend that poor, poor, Russia is being bullied by evil America. America and Russia are enemies, plain and simple, and everyone with half a brain knows it. Russia is just the little Chihuahua right now that has to bark loudly and bite the other dogs when they're sleeping, in order to make up for its lack of size.

[awsome]

I'm curious; did you actually read the paper? It is not about Russia being an economic competitor. Russia is nowhere close to being an economic competitor. Its economy is smaller than that of Texas alone. But that is not important here.

Russia is a cold, soggy leftover of the USSR that still retains some of its military and diplomatic clout. The Russians believe they can make up for the loss by engaging in what the your link talks about: hybrid warfare. Russia has many clever people left over who want to return the Motherland to its former glory, and they realize they can't do it conventionally. Hence wearing down the other countries slowly and surely, sowing discord.

And please don't pretend that poor, poor, Russia is being bullied by evil America. America and Russia are enemies, plain and simple, and everyone with half a brain knows it. Russia is just the little Chihuahua right now that has to bark loudly and bite the other dogs when they're sleeping, in order to make up for its lack of size.[/quote]

It is not just American relations with Russia. Any nation that has an independent foreign policy and pursues independent national objectives (like selling oil in currency other than US dollars) is primed and ready for a "freedom" beat down. Europe is at the edge of going their own way and it will be interesting to see what Rand has to say about them in a few years...

[babybat{}.net]

I haven't found a single Russian company that designs ASICs or FPGAs so they are prob going to rely on standard multipurpose CPUs for most of the processing.

Maybe you were looking bad. In Russia and Belarus, there are a number of manufacturers of both ASICs and FPGAs.
For example VZPP-S, Micron, Angstrem and others.

[juretrn]

I haven't found a single Russian company that designs ASICs or FPGAs so they are prob going to rely on standard multipurpose CPUs for most of the processing.

Maybe you were looking bad. In Russia and Belarus, there are a number of manufacturers of both ASICs and FPGAs.
For example VZPP-S, Micron, Angstrem and others.

They may exist, but they're as relevant as last year's snow.
A challenge for you.
Go here
http://uk.farnell.com/
or here
https://www.digikey.com/
and find a single component that's built, or even designed in Russia. Good luck!

[mixelflick]

Be strong ;
Cut the cheese right here and right now, and start all over again on a clean sheet of paper.

But? They are Russians, and given a few dozen wodka's, they are not smart at all.

How likely do you think a clean sheet design will happen?

It's been 8 years since PAK FA first flew. They've got a lot invested in it so I'm guessing the chances are between nil and zero. A scaled down SU-57 would be a nightmare. Much of its good points would be lost (i.e. extreme range, capable of carrying a large array of weapons and sensors). If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.

Without an F-35 type aircraft, we are looking at the end of Russian being competitive with the West. There was a time (Flanker export heyday) where you could get F-15 like performance for quite a bargain. Now, the best they can do is sell you 4++ jets in a 5th gen world. China will eat them alive with the FC-31, and between that and the F-35 nobody's going to be buying Russian jets anymore. Sad, given they have some really talented airframe engineers over there...

[babybat{}.net]

They may exist, but they're as relevant as last year's snow.

Information on more relevant samples is still classified.
It is obvious that they do not belong to the last generation, but they exist.

A challenge for you.
Go here
http://uk.farnell.com/
or here
https://www.digikey.com/
and find a single component that's built, or even designed in Russia. Good luck!

As an example:

[babybat{}.net]

If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.

The design of a light single-engine version of the "1.42 MFI" was called "4.12 LFI".
This project is deadlock and outdated.

Already in 2000s the company had more interesting prospects, like LFI S-21.

[babybat{}.net]

double-post

[mixelflick]

If Mig was smart they'd dust off the Mig I.44, scale that down into a single engine version and focus on sensors and weapons. It may not be stealthy enough, but doubtful the SU-57 is going to be either. At least the scaled down I.44 would be more affordable, and expenses could be offset by allowing its export.

The design of a light single-engine version of the "1.42 MFI" was called "4.12 LFI".
This project is deadlock and outdated.

Already in 2000s the company had more interesting prospects, like LFI S-21.

LFI S21?

Looks like a stealthed up J-10C!

Would have been a much better project than the SU-57 IMO. The world needs a good Mig-29 follow on (Russia too), and I don't think the Mig-35 is going to cut it...