SU-57: On hold for a decade

Military aircraft - Post cold war aircraft, including for example B-2, Gripen, F-18E/F Super Hornet, Rafale, and Typhoon.
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southernphantom

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 03:46

rheonomic wrote:MiG 1.44 was a POS and only a tech demonstrator IIRC.

Wasn't MiG supposedly working on a low end MiG-29 successor at some point? I forgot the project abbreviation.


Yes, that would be the MiG LMFS.

We'll see if it delivers an operational aircraft in meaningful numbers, or is just more Russian Plasma Stealth® vaporware nonsense.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 05:50

southernphantom wrote:
rheonomic wrote:MiG 1.44 was a POS and only a tech demonstrator IIRC.

Wasn't MiG supposedly working on a low end MiG-29 successor at some point? I forgot the project abbreviation.


Yes, that would be the MiG LMFS.

We'll see if it delivers an operational aircraft in meaningful numbers, or is just more Russian Plasma Stealth® vaporware nonsense.



In my opinion Russia made a colossal mistake. When it decided to pursue the PAK-FA over the LMFS. As the former has virtually no export potential..... :doh:
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hythelday

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 09:18

Corsair1963 wrote:
southernphantom wrote:
rheonomic wrote:MiG 1.44 was a POS and only a tech demonstrator IIRC.

Wasn't MiG supposedly working on a low end MiG-29 successor at some point? I forgot the project abbreviation.


Yes, that would be the MiG LMFS.

We'll see if it delivers an operational aircraft in meaningful numbers, or is just more Russian Plasma Stealth® vaporware nonsense.



In my opinion Russia made a colossal mistake. When it decided to pursue the PAK-FA over the LMFS. As the former has virtually no export potential..... :doh:



There were articles ~5 years ago by Russian "experts" saying demand for export PAK-FAs is roughly 600 globally. There are less advanced Flankers than that, lol.
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madrat

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 12:08

MiG as a political machine has completely lost momentum. They could have pursued many avenues, but Russian leadership pushed policy that locked them out of competitions. MiG has had one brilliant design after another succumb to its weak marketing to its own government's incoherent support strategy. (The Chinese seem to have benefited from MiG, Tupovlev, and Yakovlev being eaten alive by Sukhoi dominance.) It's not bad for the West that Russia eats its own. It's a good thing that the world isn't full of single-engine Russian light fighters and attack planes.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 17:16

madrat wrote:MiG as a political machine has completely lost momentum. They could have pursued many avenues, but Russian leadership pushed policy that locked them out of competitions. MiG has had one brilliant design after another succumb to its weak marketing to its own government's incoherent support strategy. (The Chinese seem to have benefited from MiG, Tupovlev, and Yakovlev being eaten alive by Sukhoi dominance.) It's not bad for the West that Russia eats its own. It's a good thing that the world isn't full of single-engine Russian light fighters and attack planes.



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durahawk

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 17:47

madrat wrote:MiG as a political machine has completely lost momentum. They could have pursued many avenues, but Russian leadership pushed policy that locked them out of competitions. MiG has had one brilliant design after another succumb to its weak marketing to its own government's incoherent support strategy. (The Chinese seem to have benefited from MiG, Tupovlev, and Yakovlev being eaten alive by Sukhoi dominance.) It's not bad for the West that Russia eats its own. It's a good thing that the world isn't full of single-engine Russian light fighters and attack planes.


Without the $6.7B progress payment from India for the FGFA the SU-57 project will be on life support.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the next 25 odd years we see a J-20 or J-31 with Russian Air Force or Navy liveries. They simply don't have the capital to develop a worthwhile fifth gen on there own before it becomes entirely irrelevant. There would be a lot of Russia Stronk pride to overcome, but Russia has looked to the export market before to fill urgent operational needs (see French Mistral class fiasco). At the very least, I would expect to see a Sino-Russian fighter collaboration in the future.

Of course, a spike in oil prices in the next few years could turn this whole thing around for the Russkies too.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 19:15

durahawk wrote:
madrat wrote:MiG as a political machine has completely lost momentum. They could have pursued many avenues, but Russian leadership pushed policy that locked them out of competitions. MiG has had one brilliant design after another succumb to its weak marketing to its own government's incoherent support strategy. (The Chinese seem to have benefited from MiG, Tupovlev, and Yakovlev being eaten alive by Sukhoi dominance.) It's not bad for the West that Russia eats its own. It's a good thing that the world isn't full of single-engine Russian light fighters and attack planes.


Without the $6.7B progress payment from India for the FGFA the SU-57 project will be on life support.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the next 25 odd years we see a J-20 or J-31 with Russian Air Force or Navy liveries. They simply don't have the capital to develop a worthwhile fifth gen on there own before it becomes entirely irrelevant. There would be a lot of Russia Stronk pride to overcome, but Russia has looked to the export market before to fill urgent operational needs (see French Mistral class fiasco). At the very least, I would expect to see a Sino-Russian fighter collaboration in the future.

Of course, a spike in oil prices in the next few years could turn this whole thing around for the Russkies too.



According to the Komrades at key pubs they don't need India or their money
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swiss

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 22:15

It seems the Su-57 has her first test flight with one Izdeliye 30. Or at least with a new nozzle. :wink:

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project458

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 22:46

XanderCrews wrote:
durahawk wrote:
madrat wrote:MiG as a political machine has completely lost momentum. They could have pursued many avenues, but Russian leadership pushed policy that locked them out of competitions. MiG has had one brilliant design after another succumb to its weak marketing to its own government's incoherent support strategy. (The Chinese seem to have benefited from MiG, Tupovlev, and Yakovlev being eaten alive by Sukhoi dominance.) It's not bad for the West that Russia eats its own. It's a good thing that the world isn't full of single-engine Russian light fighters and attack planes.


Without the $6.7B progress payment from India for the FGFA the SU-57 project will be on life support.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the next 25 odd years we see a J-20 or J-31 with Russian Air Force or Navy liveries. They simply don't have the capital to develop a worthwhile fifth gen on there own before it becomes entirely irrelevant. There would be a lot of Russia Stronk pride to overcome, but Russia has looked to the export market before to fill urgent operational needs (see French Mistral class fiasco). At the very least, I would expect to see a Sino-Russian fighter collaboration in the future.

Of course, a spike in oil prices in the next few years could turn this whole thing around for the Russkies too.



According to the Komrades at key pubs they don't need India or their money



Because we don't, for the last 14 years PAK FA has been funded entirely by Russian money, and this article is a joke, no hard sources , I take the word of Russian air force commander over an some analyst.
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milosh

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 22:51

swiss wrote:It seems the Su-57 has her first test flight with one Izdeliye 30. Or at least with a new nozzle. :wink:



New engine and new nozzle, nozzle looks more as LOAL nozzle then Salyut one we saw earlier, and nozzle is quite shorter.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 23:12

project458 wrote:

Because we don't, for the last 14 years PAK FA has been funded entirely by Russian money, and this article is a joke, no hard sources , I take the word of Russian air force commander over an some analyst.


Hi KGB
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project458

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 23:31

XanderCrews wrote:
project458 wrote:

Because we don't, for the last 14 years PAK FA has been funded entirely by Russian money, and this article is a joke, no hard sources , I take the word of Russian air force commander over an some analyst.


Hi KGB


Hey, uninformed :)
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XanderCrews

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Unread post05 Dec 2017, 23:56

project458 wrote:
XanderCrews wrote:
project458 wrote:

Because we don't, for the last 14 years PAK FA has been funded entirely by Russian money, and this article is a joke, no hard sources , I take the word of Russian air force commander over an some analyst.


Hi KGB


Hey, uninformed :)


Inform us
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project458

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Unread post06 Dec 2017, 01:01

XanderCrews wrote: Inform us




About what exactly? How this entire thread is based on a opinion of some analyst who has zero inside knowledge ? I remember how people on this forum said Su-57 is fiction and it will never fly, then when it flew they said it would be canceled, now 7 years and 9th prototypes later and with 10th and 11th a few months away, Su-57 is still here, and sometime in 2018 Su-57 will enter LRIP, and if people think there is a shortage of money, consider the fact that within the last decade alone Ruaf inducted 500+ Fixed wing platforms, thats second only to US, a broke country's doesn't have that kind of money to spend.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post06 Dec 2017, 02:45

project458 wrote:
XanderCrews wrote: Inform us


I remember how people on this forum said Su-57 is fiction and it will never fly, then when it flew they said it would be canceled.


Really? Who said that?

I know I didn't. You are new but not everyone here is an individual. Some were saying that?

Some were saying it would take years and years before they churned out even 10 prototypes as well...

now 7 years and 9th prototypes later and with 10th and 11th a few months away,


Image

7 years?

FAKE NEWS ALERT:

if going just by the first flight its been nearly 8 years, seeing as the first prototype flew in January of 2010... And of course the PAK-FA program itself goes back further than just 2010.


Image

I guess I was wrong when I asked you to inform us seeing as you don't know what youre talking about. In your defense you were probably too young to remember 2009? or maybe you just got caught lying? or maybe just completely ignorant?
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