Saab Gripen news

[loke]

Busy days in the Gripen factory. Another four Gripen E are soon ready to take to the skies!

https://gripenblogs.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2070

On time.
On budget.

[icemaverick]

To defeat Russia's fearsome fighters and surface-to-air missiles, the US has largely turned to stealth aircraft. Stealth costs a fortune and must be built into the shape of the plane.

If Russia somehow cracks the code of detecting stealth-shaped fighters, the US's F-35, the most expensive weapons system in history, is cooked.

But Saab took a different, and cheaper, approach to combating Russia's fighters and missiles by focusing on electronic attack, which gives them an advantage over stealth because they can evolve the software without a ground-up rebuild, according to Bronk.Russia air defense s-400 EuropeRadio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

Saab plans to update the software on the Gripen E every two years, giving it more flexibility to meet evolving challenges, according to Bronk.

As we know the F-35 has very limited electronic attack capability. Same thing with the Growler. And it’s not like the capabilities software of these jets will ever get updated.

[citanon]

To defeat Russia's fearsome fighters and surface-to-air missiles, the US has largely turned to stealth aircraft. Stealth costs a fortune and must be built into the shape of the plane.

If Russia somehow cracks the code of detecting stealth-shaped fighters, the US's F-35, the most expensive weapons system in history, is cooked.

But Saab took a different, and cheaper, approach to combating Russia's fighters and missiles by focusing on electronic attack, which gives them an advantage over stealth because they can evolve the software without a ground-up rebuild, according to Bronk.Russia air defense s-400 EuropeRadio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

Saab plans to update the software on the Gripen E every two years, giving it more flexibility to meet evolving challenges, according to Bronk.

As we know the F-35 has very limited electronic attack capability. Same thing with the Growler. And it’s not like the capabilities software of these jets will ever get updated.

LOL. Leave it to Business Insider to find the most idiotic sounding "experts".

[loke]

There are many things that affect detection performance and there are ways to improve detection capability of low-RCS targets from higher background noise. This would be for example detecting low-flying cruise missiles and drones for example. For example AESA radars are comparatively much better in this than MSA/PESA radars can ever be. This is mostly because of distributed HPA/LNA architecture means system errors basically cancel each other. Then basic radar range equation does not give right answer as it doesn't include all the factors affecting detection. Basically AESA radar has higher gain in high background clutter situation than in low clutter situation. Higher gain can also be achieved with upgrading back-end of radar. This is what they have done with PS-05 radar with improved signal processing HW/SW and possibly receiver upgrade and some other minor tweaks. In older systems this can result in pretty impressive improvements in performance. Like old AN/APG-68 versions to AN/APG-68(V)9.

However I'd say that in this example they are talking about high-altitude air-to-air detection performance which would mean low background noise levels. Here range improvement will be much closer to basic radar range equation and target radar cross section is the most determining factor. I agree that Saab statements here have been rather rather strange and I'd say the range improvement is mostly 40-50 percent and definitely not 140-150 percent they state. That would mean detection range has been improved from say 100 km to 240-250 km which is not possible with just upgrading the back-end. Of course if the previous back-end was totally horrible, then it might be true but I don't think that's the case.

Albeit without any first-hand points of comparison, the air-to-air radar range was singularly impressive. In look-up mode we were able to detect and track airliners flying off the east coast – a range comfortably in excess of 300 km! Hans showed me how to use the throttle grip to slew the cursor on the radar display to select a target and engage it with a mock BVRAAM. He pointed out that the PS-05 Mk3 radar (current standard fit on all Swedish Air Force Gripens) is already able to take advantage of the MBDA Meteor’s formidable range. Sweden’s fighters were upgraded last year to incorporate the latest MS20 operating software standard, making the Gripen the first combat platform to operationalise the Meteor BVRAAM.

http://www.zone5aviation.com/2017/03/14 ... 39-gripen/

The RCS is pretty big in this case -- OTOH it says "track"...

What is the RCS of a typical "airliner"?

[loke]

Saab is continuing to make good progress with its Gripen E programme, with chief executive Hakan Buskhe revealing that it launched serial production of the fighter early this year.

Speaking during an annual results presentation on 15 February, Buskhe said the programme advance was made "in the first week of January". Saab is under contract to produce 60 examples of the new-generation type for the Swedish air force, and 36 E/F-model examples in partnership with Embraer for Brazil.

Following scheduled first deliveries to both customers before year-end, the Gripen E is expected to be available for use in Sweden from 2021, according to Stockholm's FMV defence materiel administration. Initial operational capability has previously been set for 2023.

Meanwhile, Buskhe confirms: "We are in discussions on a next batch for Brazil," and suggests that the follow-on procurement could be advanced from around 2021 or 2022. The Swedish air force's commander also recently indicated his service's interest in potentially acquiring another 60 of the type, he notes.

Other export opportunities are also being eyed for the single-engined fighter. "We just turned in our proposal to Switzerland and Finland, and we are in discussion with Canada," Buskhe says. Saab is also looking at Croatia's requirements, he confirms, after the nation's planned acquisition of ex-Israeli air force Lockheed Martin F-16s collapsed recently.

Saab's proposal to Finland totals 64 Gripen E/Fs, while Switzerland is being offered either 30 or 40 single-seat examples. Procurement decisions by both nations are expected around 2021.

Responding to a question about the Swedish company's willingness to collaborate on future European combat aircraft programmes, Buskhe says it has so far seen no detail about a recently launched French/German project. However, he confirms that it has had "very fruitful discussions with the UK and partners" regarding the Tempest concept.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... sa-455831/

So serial production has started already... what happened to the massive delays predicted by the "experts" on this forum...?

[loke]

https://saab.com/air/gripen-fighter-sys ... gripen-ef/

Gripen E/F has 6 pylons cleared for a2a IR missiles and 7 pylons cleared for BVR missiles. 3 pylons are clared for drop tanks. I wonder what combos of a2a missiles and drop tanks will be possible? It seems 6 a2a missiles and one center drop tank is a no-brainer; I wonder if it can carry additional 2 BVR missiles on 5L and 5CR in combination with the center tank? That would give a quite acceptable 8 a2a missiles on one of the smallest multirole fighters on the market, and it would still have a decent range with the center tank. But it may be too tight? I wonder if 9 a2a would be possible missiles if they drop the center tank (pun intended)?

[mixelflick]

SAAB knows it has an issue with non E/F versions and how many weapons/how much fuel it can carry. Problems as in, it's one or the other.

But if what's being said here is true, they'll carry a "respectable" air to air loadout of 8 AAM's in the E/F. That's going to be a whole lotta' drag though, especially given most won't be semi-recessed (as is the case with Typhoon or snug to the fuselage in the case of Rafale). I'm guessing under-wing meteor's have a drag index greater than AMRAAM. And that centerline tank isn't going to do it any favors in the drag dept, either.

But it's got swell E/W capabilities, like the F-35 doesn't LOL. And if the Russians/Chinese crack the code on stealth, the F-35 is "cooked", LOL. Apparently, it then also looses its E/W suite, massive SA advantage/sensors and hyper-maneuverability too. To believe this article, it'll just fall out of the air.

Guess we should have bought Gripens...

[jakobs]

Depends on the mission, but I would guess 6 missiles and center tank will be the regular configuration. Most missiles you will probably see it fly with should be 7, one fuel tank on each wing and three missiles under the belly.

[marsavian]

But it's got swell E/W capabilities, like the F-35 doesn't LOL.

The F-35 has great EW capabilities via the frontal cone of its big AESA but the Gripen NG has 6 GaN AESA jamming transmitters on the wing tips and tail fin that give it 360 degree jamming capability. Gripen may not be stealth but the final E/F versions may turn out to the most survivable of all the evolved 4th generation fighters. Its AESA also can swivel to cover just over the whole frontal hemisphere.

https://saab.com/air/electronic-warfare ... rs/arexis/

[XanderCrews]

So serial production has started already... what happened to the massive delays predicted by the "experts" on this forum...?

2013 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2014 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2015 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2016 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2017 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2018 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2019 "HA! Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E Where were all the delays haters?!"

Theyre right here dude^^^

They already happened? Ive been predicting Gripen NG delays for 10 years now, Loke.

1. The delays have already happened, unless you want to say the plan from the get go was full capability in 2023 when they were pitching this thing hard well over 10 years ago.

2. its still early, The F-35 serial production started in 2007.

3. As has been stated by the "experts" on this forum, Gripen Fans can't even agree on a Gripen NG timeline. when did research start again? when did development begin, then stop, then resume?

Busy days in the Gripen factory. Another four Gripen E are soon ready to take to the skies!

https://gripenblogs.com/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2070

On time.
On budget.

and Overweight.

You must think we have no memory:

Saab contracted to begin Gripen E serial production
Gareth Jennings, London - Jane's Defence Weekly
18 December 2013

Based on the two-seat Gripen NG demonstrator, the single-seat Gripen E will feature an AESA radar, more advanced avionics, an improved General Electric F414G turbofan engine, increased stores capabilities, and increased fuel tanks for further range. (Saab)
Based on the two-seat Gripen NG demonstrator, the single-seat Gripen E will feature an AESA radar, more advanced avionics, an improved General Electric F414G turbofan engine, increased stores capabilities, and increased fuel tanks for further range. (Saab)
The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) has contracted Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E fighter aircraft, the company announced on 18 December.

The SEK16.4 billion (USD2.5 billion) contract will cover serial production from 2013-26 and covers the conversion of 60 Gripen C aircraft to Gripen E standard. Deliveries will begin in 2018.

In February the FMV awarded Saab a one-year SEK2.5 billion agreement for development work pertaining to the 60 Swedish Air Force aircraft, as well as for 22 aircraft earmarked for Switzerland. This was followed in March with a SEK10.7 billion contract to take development work through to 2023.

(but the swiss!! I know I know )

The Timeline changed every year, Loke. the amount purchased, and by whom changed constantly just like the timeline dud. and Just like the claimed stats did. Even the NG prototype's first flight was delayed a half year.

2013 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2014 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2015 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2016 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2017 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2018 Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E

2019 "HA! Saab to begin serial production of the JAS 39 Gripen E Where were all the delays haters?!"





By your standard the F-35 is on time and on budget if its a never ending 1984-style "new history" and "memory holing"

"F-35C IOC!! what happened to the massive delays predicted by the "experts" on this forum...?"

[pron]

But it's got swell E/W capabilities, like the F-35 doesn't LOL.

The F-35 has great EW capabilities via the frontal cone of its big AESA but the Gripen NG has 6 GaN AESA jamming transmitters on the wing tips and tail fin that give it 360 degree jamming capability.

And you don't think the F-35 have the same 360 capability? Read some more about the AN/ASQ-239.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... re-Systems

[XanderCrews]

[energo]

[And you don't think the F-35 have the same 360 capability? Read some more about the AN/ASQ-239.
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... re-Systems

Wasn't aware that the AN/ASQ-239 had 360 degree jamming, but I could be wrong?

https://www.baesystems.com/en/download- ... 878736.pdf

* Simultaneous jamming without interfering with radar and radar warning receiver

[energo]

The Gripen NG program started in 2005. Though it's certain that the program has had (and still has) its share of technical challenges (the media is not told) the delays, if you want to call it that, has probably more to do with lack of customers (Dutch, Norwegians, Swiss) and the desire to align procurement (Brazil, Swiss - formerly) with the main operator (Swedish AF) to reduce cost. Recall, that until about 2013 the Swedes were pretty much undecided on their own Gripen future.

[XanderCrews]

The Gripen NG program started in 2005. Though it's certain that the program has had (and still has) its share of technical challenges (the media is not told) the delays, if you want to call it that, has probably more to do with lack of customers (Dutch, Norwegians, Swiss) and the desire to align procurement (Brazil, Swiss - formerly) with the main operator (Swedish AF) to reduce cost. Recall, that until about 2013 the Swedes were pretty much undecided on their own Gripen future.

Look I'm fine with that. I don't mind the Gripen NG -- its the fanboys. Even one doesn't want to count technical delays (and yes there have indeed been technical delays) the many questions and issues over its sales have caused delays as well, so I think its completely absurd to have some in here attempting victory laps and cheap shot based on falsehoods that its "on time. On budget" that's an utter joke.



Ive literally had Gripen Fan boys tell me that its never been delayed because they only did any development work on it when another country was buying it. So its had years where it was never being developed and designed? Really? On The Other Hand I've had Gripen Fans tell me that Saab only doubles down when there is a sales set back, developing it even harder when a sale goes sideways or doesn't happen In the F-35 vs Gripen NG thread we literally had pages and pages of Gripen fanboys that couldn't come to an agreement on when its actual timeline and when the program was started, in development, etc etc. Utter ridiculousness


So I take umbrage at the apparent lack of memory and deeply concerning affinity for kool-aide chugging, at the expense of my own common sense and the fact that some of us have been watching the NG program since it was a snazzy CGI image in a magazine back in 2005.

Anyone who has been watching this program since 2005 has not seem an "on time, on budget" masterstroke. Its been chalk-a-block with drama and years long set backs, even a referendum, losses interrupted with occasional wins its been a helluva long and twisted road. it has not been a SWISS watch. It parallels the F-35 far more than its fans would like to admit, while being far less ambitious. if you've been watching as long as I have, one would have to be on crack to say its been "on time" and "on budget" as we just start serial production in 2019

its great that some have fallen for the propaganda but I refuse to, and I won't play along with the delusion and infinite hairsplitting