Israel Asks for F-22 Stealth Jets to Preserve Military Edge

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lamoey

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Unread post29 Oct 2020, 16:22

Israel Asks U.S. for F-22 Stealth Jets to Preserve Military Edge

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-after-uae-deal-israel-seeks-to-buy-f-22-fighter-jets-to-preserve-military-edge-1.9262787

Israeli defense officials have confirmed that Jerusalem has asked senior American officials to consider removing obstacles hindering the sale of F-22 fighter jets to the Israeli Air Force to preserve its air superiority following the agreement of the United States to sell the F-35s to the UAE.

Senior Israeli defense officials say the purported concealment of the sale of F-35 jets to the UAE complicated a possible sale to Israel of the world’s most advanced fighter plane, the F-22 Raptor, as well as other advanced equipment.


Much more in the article.
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mixelflick

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Unread post29 Oct 2020, 16:28

Interesting for sure, but not happening anytime soon...

Production ceased a LONG time ago, and its doubtful the US could have resurrected it even if it wanted to/had the money. It's a tiny, silver bullet force for USAF and has sensitive tech that's all too easily compromised. See the Lavi now flying as the J-10. Besides, Israel already has the qualitative edge, a 5 plus year head start with the F-35 (2016, first deliveries) and the UAE won't be getting there's for some time - likely years.

Unless USAF has an equal or greater number of NGAD/PCA aircraft flying we don't know about, no American F-22's will be sold to them (or anyone). The F-35 should be more than adequate especially given the "unique" modifications we allowed them to make to the airframe. Doubly so, if they get the AIM-260 in the near future.. which I bet is a distinct possibility.

Appreciate you making this post though, it's an interesting development.
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wrightwing

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Unread post29 Oct 2020, 23:02

Israel would be far better off waiting on NGAD, than trying to get the F-22 production line up and running for a handful of jets.
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marauder2048

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Unread post29 Oct 2020, 23:32

wrightwing wrote:Israel would be far better off waiting on NGAD, than trying to get the F-22 production line up and running for a handful of jets.


NGAD could be too big for the Israelis in more ways than one: it may not fit in their new hardened aircraft shelters.
The F-22 is a known quantity including the F-22 restart variant (F-35 avionics backfit).

If the US elects not to upgrade the Block 10/20 F-22s as NGAD comes online...
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quicksilver

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Unread post29 Oct 2020, 23:36

Think thru this guys; this is not about F-22.
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marauder2048

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 00:40

quicksilver wrote:Think thru this guys; this is not about F-22.

I don't have access to the full article so I'm curious about your views.
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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 02:38

marauder2048 wrote:
quicksilver wrote:Think thru this guys; this is not about F-22.

I don't have access to the full article so I'm curious about your views.


“NGAD COULD BE too big for the Israelis in more ways than one...” [my emphasis added]

Really? Why? Spell it out.
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marauder2048

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 03:57

quicksilver wrote:
marauder2048 wrote:
quicksilver wrote:Think thru this guys; this is not about F-22.

I don't have access to the full article so I'm curious about your views.


“NGAD COULD BE too big for the Israelis in more ways than one...” [my emphasis added]

Really? Why? Spell it out.


If NGAD is motivated by the need to operate outside of the HGV/IRBM arc it's potentially
going to be too big and expensive for the Israelis to acquire and operate.

And the fact that it's partially a special access program (like JATM) which is not typically
something to which allies are privy.

Conceivably, with NGAD, we're talking about a "fighter" in between the F-22 and the B-1B.

And the F-22 has some nice min-takeoff and min landing distances that would contribute
to Israel's resiliency under airbase attack (so would the F-35B of course) and it's right sized
for their hardened aircraft shelters.

But another possibility is just: Israel gets first dibs on the F-35 + AETP and conformals.
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quicksilver

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 08:18

“But another possibility is just: Israel gets first dibs on the F-35 + AETP and conformals.“

...and/or whatever the next round of goodies are that get hung on the jet.

‘Degree of difficulty’ for any F-22 option is very very high, but as a negotiating position not a bad place to start.
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madrat

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 12:38

Could it be more about the 6th gen demonstrator and less about F-22A?
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mixelflick

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 13:52

The Israeli's might be privy to something about the F-22/NGAD program the general public is not.

If you "know" F-22 production ceased long ago and you "know" the preservation of long term tooling was a disaster, why would you even ask? You also have to know USAF doesn't have anywhere near enough, so its unlikely (as in, highly unlikely) they're going to share any of them. Unless....

The US has some other small fleet of superfighters/systems, and the F-22 is no longer the pinnacle of air dominance. It's a longshot but not inconceivable, as we maintained a small fleet (59) of F-117's for many years. That way, we could spare 20-30 F-22 training jets that could be upgraded and sold to the Israeli's.

I dunno. I just don't think they'd be asking, if they didn't already know the game had changed in some way.
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marauder2048

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Unread post30 Oct 2020, 17:12

mixelflick wrote:The Israeli's might be privy to something about the F-22/NGAD program the general public is not.


I'm not sure the Israelis have ever been briefed on even a partial Special Access Program.

mixelflick wrote:If you "know" F-22 production ceased long ago and you "know" the preservation of long term tooling was a disaster,


Except the F-22 Restart Study said that 95% of the production tooling was around and the refurb costs
were pretty low.

mixelflick wrote:The US has some other small fleet of superfighters/systems, and the F-22 is no longer the pinnacle of air dominance. It's a longshot but not inconceivable, as we maintained a small fleet (59) of F-117's for many years. That way, we could spare 20-30 F-22 training jets that could be upgraded and sold to the Israeli's.


Yes. That was my guess: the Block 10/20s could get handed over as NGAD came on line.
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Corsair1963

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Unread post02 Nov 2020, 08:07

Absurd story as the F-22 isn't going back into production for the USAF let alone the IAF/AF. As it is not economical to do so. This has been debated many times over.......


The whole subject is moot and pure fiction.... :?
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Unread post02 Nov 2020, 22:16

quicksilver wrote:‘Degree of difficulty’ for any F-22 option is very very high, but as a negotiating position not a bad place to start.


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Unread post03 Nov 2020, 01:41

wrightwing wrote:Israel would be far better off waiting on NGAD, than trying to get the F-22 production line up and running for a handful of jets.

Or they could get used F22s we offload when NGAD gets delivered here
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