Admitted: F-22 won most of the WVR fights against Rafale

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gta4

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Unread post18 May 2016, 05:35

Source from interview of French air force. Please see the English translation.
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"F-22 has a formidable maneuverability, which allows it to win most of the delicate dogfight situations".
PS: "se sortir de" is an expression which means "to succeed, to win".
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/s%E2%80%99en_sortir
se sortir de=s'en sortir=réussir=succeed.
Do not make word-to-word translation to "escape" :D It does not make any sense to escape a dogfight with formidable maneuverability.

PS: I don't care who won once or twice. I just care who won most.
Last edited by gta4 on 18 May 2016, 17:31, edited 1 time in total.
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mixelflick

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Unread post18 May 2016, 12:17

That's a fair point.

One F-15 pilot I spoke with who fought Malaysian Flankers put it this way, "we won 77 of 91 engagements...". Far more telling (and credible IMO), vs. single engagements..
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wil59

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Unread post18 May 2016, 13:59

gta4 wrote:Source from interview of French air force. Please see the English translation.
1.jpg

5.jpg

"F-22 has a formidable maneuverability, which allows it to win most of the delicate dogfight situations".
PS: "se sortir de" is an expression which means "to succeed, to win".
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/s%E2%80%99en_sortir
se sortir de=s'en sortir=réussir=succeed.

PS: I don't care who won once or twice. I just care who won most.


the true translation;although it is much heavier than the burst, the f-22a retains a formidable maneuverability that allows him to get out = escaped most difficult situations in fights reeling . It is not about winning here; you misinterpreted the French language it simply said that the F-22 can come out of a difficult situation by its maneuverability neither more nor less ...
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deadseal

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Unread post18 May 2016, 14:59

maybe we should scrap all of our f-22s and buy rafales instead
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wil59

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Unread post18 May 2016, 16:15

deadseal wrote:maybe we should scrap all of our f-22s and buy rafales instead


What is the problem! I just retranslated which was written in French on the book ; gta4 the translation was wrong! for my part I will not come in your games to say which is the best burst or the F-22 are not comparable !the F-22 is an air supérieurité plane; the rafale is a multirole combat aircraft, the F-22 costs 360 mls dollard unit rafale costs euro 160 mls included research and development unit; rafale proved he was very good it has na be compared to the F-22 is a plane that only the usa are bought! the usa have a défence budget greater than all other countries of the world together !! so it didnt cause for windy here!
Last edited by wil59 on 18 May 2016, 16:24, edited 1 time in total.
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wil59

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Unread post18 May 2016, 16:21

wil59 wrote:
deadseal wrote:maybe we should scrap all of our f-22s and buy rafales instead


What is the problem! I just retranslated which was written in French on the book ; gta4 the translation was wrong! for my part I will not come in your games to say which is the best burst or the F-22 are not comparable !the F-22 is an air supérieurité plane; the rafale is a multirole combat aircraft, the F-22 costs 360 mls dollard unit rafale costs euro 160 mls included research and development unit; rafale proved he was Very good it has na be compared to the F-22 is a plane that only the usa are bought! the usa have a défence budget greater than all other countries of the world together !! so it didnt cause for windy here!
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gta4

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Unread post18 May 2016, 17:10

wil59 wrote:
deadseal wrote:maybe we should scrap all of our f-22s and buy rafales instead


What is the problem! I just retranslated which was written in French on the book ; gta4 the translation was wrong! for my part I will not come in your games to say which is the best burst or the F-22 are not comparable !the F-22 is an air supérieurité plane; the rafale is a multirole combat aircraft, the F-22 costs 360 mls dollard unit rafale costs euro 160 mls included research and development unit; rafale proved he was very good it has na be compared to the F-22 is a plane that only the usa are bought! the usa have a défence budget greater than all other countries of the world together !! so it didnt cause for windy here!


Interesting.

"se sortir de" is an expression which could not be taken literally.
se sortir de=réussir=succeed, that's for sure.
Your are telling me that succeed=escape?

Do you known what AN EXPRESSION means? How do you translate "it's raining cats and dogs"? Do cats and dogs literally fall from sky?

EXPRESSIONS could not be taken LITERALLY, kid.
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em745

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Unread post18 May 2016, 18:29

Guys, guys... Simmer down.

As a native French speaker who sometimes does translation work, I can confirm that gta4's interpretation is correct.

Here's my own:

Even if it's much heavier than the Rafale, the F-22A has formidable maneuverability which allows it to come out ahead in most "dogfighting" situations.

(For future reference, never trust Google translate!)
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wil59

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Unread post18 May 2016, 18:49

em745 wrote:Guys, guys... Simmer down.

As a native French speaker who sometimes does translation work, I can confirm that gta4's interpretation is correct.

Here's my own:

Even if it's much heavier than the Rafale, the F-22A has formidable maneuverability which allows it to come out ahead in most "dogfighting" situations.

(For future reference, never trust Google translate!)
je suis francais ;il est dit que le f-22 est plus lourd que le rafale et que le f-22 a une trés bonne maniabilité qui peux l'aide a se soustraire d'une situation difficile! en aucun cas l'article mentionne que le f-22 a gagné en dogfighting contre le rafale comme gta4 le dit! dans la mentalité francaise le fait que l'on dise (lui permet de se sortir de la plupart des situations délicates) ne veux pas dire qu'il est intouchable! ce que le pilote décrit veux dire que le f-22 est difficile a suivre quand il fait des manoeuvre évasive pour une raison x ou y! la facon de parler ou d'écrire n'est pas forcément compris de la méme facon quand on appartient a des pays différent c'est un qui-propos.
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gta4

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Unread post18 May 2016, 19:21

So, the french guy, could you please tell me why even French-French dictionary wont list "escape" as an interpretation of "s'en sortir"?

Does any of the following mean "to escape"? Do you mean "to overcome = to escape"? Hahahahahaha :mrgreen:

s’en sortir \s‿ɑ̃ sɔʁ.tiʁ\ (se conjugue, voir la conjugaison de se sortir)

Réussir à surmonter une situation difficile.
Il avait sombré dans la drogue, mais il s'en est sorti.
Elle s'en est sortie avec des côtes cassées seulement, ce qui tient du miracle compte tenu de la hauteur de la chute.
(Par extension) Réussir une tâche qui peut apparaître au départ comme difficile.
Ça n'a pas l'air trop difficile, je crois que je vais m'en sortir.
Synonymes[modifier]
Réussir une tâche (2) :
y arriver
y parvenir


Where is "to escape"? :mrgreen:
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gta4

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Unread post18 May 2016, 19:28

wil59 wrote:
em745 wrote:Guys, guys... Simmer down.

As a native French speaker who sometimes does translation work, I can confirm that gta4's interpretation is correct.

Here's my own:

[i]ce que le pilote décrit veux dire que le f-22 est difficile a suivre quand il fait des manoeuvre évasive pour une raison x ou y!


Where is this phrase? Does any word in the article mention "Rafale followed F22"? Where is the word "follow" from the article?

You only believe in your imagination, regardless what is written.

""
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wil59

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Unread post18 May 2016, 20:57

gta4 wrote:
wil59 wrote:
em745 wrote:Guys, guys... Simmer down.

As a native French speaker who sometimes does translation work, I can confirm that gta4's interpretation is correct.

Here's my own:

[i]ce que le pilote décrit veux dire que le f-22 est difficile a suivre quand il fait des manoeuvre évasive pour une raison x ou y!


Where is this phrase? Does any word in the article mention "Rafale followed F22"? Where is the word "follow" from the article?

You only believe in your imagination, regardless what is written.

""
get out of difficult situation do not mean (to win in difficult situation) or you see the word WIN the word in the original text in french is NOT MENTIONED it's your interpretation that is false! ....YOUR IMAGINATION
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gta4

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Unread post18 May 2016, 22:07

get out of difficult situation do not mean (to win in difficult situation) or you see the word WIN the word in the original text in french is NOT MENTIONED it's your interpretation that is false! ....YOUR IMAGINATION


Your French-English translation is terrible.
Neither "surmonter" or "reussir" means "get out of". The former means "come out on top", the latter means "to succeed".

F-22 came out on top in a dogfight; F-22 succeeded in dogfighting; both phrases mean "F-22 won the dogfight".

End of the line. :mrgreen:
Last edited by gta4 on 18 May 2016, 22:09, edited 1 time in total.
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wil59

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Unread post19 May 2016, 08:58

gta4 wrote:
get out of difficult situation do not mean (to win in difficult situation) or you see the word WIN the word in the original text in french is NOT MENTIONED it's your interpretation that is false! ....YOUR IMAGINATION


Your French-English translation is terrible.
Neither "surmonter" or "reussir" means "get out of". The former means "come out on top", the latter means "to succeed".

F-22 came out on top in a dogfight; F-22 succeeded in dogfighting; both phrases mean "F-22 won the dogfight".

End of the line. :mrgreen:[/quote ] https://theaviationist.com/2013/06/19/f ... by-rafale/
That i want to say is in the video;The rafale has the f-22 in the HUD ;The rafale in the video draws 8.5g in a turn runs to remain in contacts visual white the f-22;In spite of that the f-22 arrives has to escape from the HUD of the rafale;They are which want to say the pilot rafale(TO GET OUT) Can not beat my guys!If you not understand i can not do anything for you!
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Unread post19 May 2016, 09:35

"se sortir de..." means to get (safely) out of a difficoult situation, which could just mean, the F-22 didn't get shot down, or it "survived" the fight until another criteria was met to end the fight. I wouldn't translate it as "the F-22 won most fights". Still, there is much appreciation for the F-22 in this expression. I'm not french native, but I speak good enough this beautiful language!
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