Restarting F-22 production

dirtcatcher · by **dirtcatcher** » 19 May 2016, 01:39

(long time lurker, first time poster)

On the topic of 5th gen vs. 4th gen fighter engagements, I suspect the contest could be decided before ever a BVR shot need be taken. VLO + AESA + Fused Sensor Networking will likely make available tactical options to the 5th gen force that would close the door on the 4th gen force's pursuit of its strategic objectives without a single blow exchanged.

i.e.: Not only may the 5th gen fighters have the option of whether or not to engage the 4th gen fighters, but the 4th gen force may be so limited in its tactical options (knowing the capabilities of its opponent) that it may be unwilling to risk extending itself as would be necessary to even challenge its opponent.

les_paul59 · by **les_paul59** » 19 May 2016, 03:25

welcome to the forum dirtcatcher, I'm sure there will be times where a 5th gen. jet just avoids trouble, no need to shoot down a target if you don't have to and it's unaware of your presence. Those missiles cost big bucks.

basher54321 · by **basher54321** » 04 May 2018, 22:21

USAF Report to Congressional Committees
F-22A Production Restart Assessment Feb 2017

F-22A-Production-Restart-Assessment.pdf: (2.1 MiB) Downloaded 1290 times

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 05 May 2018, 03:19

basher54321 wrote:USAF Report to Congressional Committees
F-22A Production Restart Assessment Feb 2017

F-22A-Production-Restart-Assessment.pdf

Has it been a year already?!

citanon · by **citanon** » 05 May 2018, 20:03

basher54321 wrote:USAF Report to Congressional Committees
F-22A Production Restart Assessment Feb 2017

F-22A-Production-Restart-Assessment.pdf

So basic message is 50.3 billion for 194 aircraft, with 9.87 billion of that being nonrecurring.

icemaverick · by **icemaverick** » 05 May 2018, 20:32

So procuring 194 Raptors would cost about $259.3 million per plane. That doesn’t sound very likely. It would be more economical to buy more F-35As if they feel there is a shortage of aircraft.

popcorn · by **popcorn** » 05 May 2018, 23:51

Lots of red flags and risks not covered in that $50B estimate.

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 06 May 2018, 00:41

icemaverick wrote:So procuring 194 Raptors would cost about $259.3 million per plane. That doesn’t sound very likely. It would be more economical to buy more F-35As if they feel there is a shortage of aircraft.

Or spend the money to make a fourth variant of the F-35 that gets closer to the performance of the F-22, if the whole pilot shortage thing is an issue. A SDB sized heat seeker would also help.

madrat · by **madrat** » 06 May 2018, 07:05

Considering the production of F-35A in LRIP exceeds what competitors will have over the next decade, it makes more sense to bank on the current F-35 plans.

citanon · by **citanon** » 06 May 2018, 10:14

At this point money is probably better spent developing and fielding better missiles and moving to the next gen.

count_to_10 · by **count_to_10** » 07 May 2018, 00:45

madrat wrote:Considering the production of F-35A in LRIP exceeds what competitors will have over the next decade, it makes more sense to bank on the current F-35 plans.

That’s why, if you really felt the need to eek out a little more performance, you may get more bang for your buck by modifying the F-35A.

Corsair1963 · by **Corsair1963** » 07 May 2018, 03:21

My guess is the Raptor will get modest upgrades in the coming years. While, the F-35 will get the "Lion Share" of future funding.

citanon · by **citanon** » 07 May 2018, 07:32

If you think about it, the US is in the unique position of being the first nation in history to have access to a large and comprehensive array of stealth aircraft in different roles (B-2, B-21, F-22, F-35, what ever surveillance drones are in the black/gray worlds) to both employ and practice against.

Perhaps then the next major "upgrade" is not to the platforms but to how the entire network is integrated and employed for offensive and defensive operations.

In other words, we might already have the 5th gen hardware in place for PCA. The sixth gen is actually us knitting those 5th gen pieces together and creating those new concepts of operations.

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 07 May 2018, 15:13

I'm confused...

You're suggesting there will be no sixth gen airframe?

citanon · by **citanon** » 07 May 2018, 15:51

I'm suggesting that the sixth gen won't initially be an airframe. It will start as a better network and a better way of employing the network. One key feature, I think, will be the ability to bypass big centralized C2 nodes. Another key feature would be better fusion of high bandwidth data from a larger number and larger variety of platforms to counter stealth.

The first hardware components will actually be MADL data links pushed out across all the platforms and advanced data fusion engines with even more powerful processors.

When PCA the aircraft finally comes, it will be designed to plug the remaining capability gaps of PCA, the network.