F-16 vs F-35 in DEAD mission against russian sams

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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laos

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Unread post03 Sep 2018, 09:26

Hi,
how much more effective will be F-35 in DEAD mission against Russian sams ?
If we had a 16 ship squadron of F-16 block 50 how many F-35 can do their job ?
What's your opinion ?
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hornetfinn

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Unread post03 Sep 2018, 11:07

Pretty difficult to say since a lot depends on exact situation and available support assets. For example F-16s will be fine against SA-8 and SA-2 systems most of the time using SDBs, WMCDs, JSOWs, JASSMs, HARMs and other modern weapons. Against a combined force of latest S-300/400, Buk, Tor and/or Pantsir systems and Su-35s, things are looking a lot more complex. F-16s would need a lot of support, likely get some losses and be a lot less effective (not achieve their goals).

F-35s would not need or even want much support besides maybe tankers. They would also be a lot more likely to achieve their mission objectives and likely not get any or very light losses in comparison to F-16. I think in most cases 4 F-35s will be a lot more effective than 16 ship squadron of F-16s.
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n3sk

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 01:01

Is this situation not currently being tested in Syria to some degree. Results being Syria ( I would assume with Russian advisors)shot down a Russian IL -20. I wonder what they were firing missiles at???So I think both platforms are capable of it or at least hitting targets gauarded by russian SAMS.

From what I understand the software in the F-35 is still being tested, has roughly A few more years to reach Maturity, they just got done dropping tons of ordinance on Eglin. I also hear in A2A 1 F-35 dominated the 4th gen aggressors while being bigly outnumbered. Word around the watering hole is you feel helpless in a Viper when going against the 35. Fish in a barrel.
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popcorn

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 01:38

There was a report some time back on a USMC exercise with F-35Bs going up.against a simulated advanced SAM threat which it was able to neutralise quite handily.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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element1loop

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 03:08

2 x F-35A can penetrate and loiter for ~4 hours over Syria, continuously logging all pop-ups and movements around air defense sites. Truck launch a MALD-type drone to simulate F-16s to stir things up, perhaps drop a weapon to bait, then watch what pops-up. Kill highest priority targets and pass the rest to the network, for artillery or GLCM attack. After four hours, in comes two more F-35A to relieve. These get the first two's contact data and SA reports, and take over a continuous Watch-'n-Kill role, which can be maintained for an entire conflict.

The OPFOR can't use active emissions and survive (like they more-or-less could against F-16s). Nor can SAMs complete a kill chain against the roving F-35A, even if they know approximately where they are. Plus the F-35A are providing no end of continuous ISR and real-time targeting prioritization to the wider force. So even with no weapons the loitering F-35A remains a deadly observation, enhanced SA and FAC platform, for everything else that can attack and overwhelm a ground target, and provide a continuous effects update.
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popcorn

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 03:23

We have to be content with whatever whiffs into the public domain.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... ext-level/
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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boilermaker

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 06:20

Israel a couple days ago unleashed hundreds of bombs against Iranian assets in Syria after intercepting rocket attacks from Iranians in Golan Heights. Seems like the Israelies are better shooting down their missiles than they are shooting down Israeli crafts. Wonder if F35s were involved.
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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 11:38

popcorn wrote:We have to be content with whatever whiffs into the public domain.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... ext-level/


Thanks, that was interesting. I found this to be pretty damn good result:
General Davis said the USMC had a achieved a 12-minute turnaround of a F-35, refuelling and replacing weapons and other stores.
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n3sk

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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 21:55

Is anyone aware of differences in opperating costs when you consider the force multiplier of the F-35 being able to do all these roles compared to multiple legacy aircraft. One of the big complaints was the initial cost of the program but for example let say 1 f-35 = 4 f-16’s and AWACS how much cheaper is the f-35?
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Unread post16 Jan 2019, 23:06

n3sk wrote:Is anyone aware of differences in opperating costs when you consider the force multiplier of the F-35 being able to do all these roles compared to multiple legacy aircraft. One of the big complaints was the initial cost of the program but for example let say 1 f-35 = 4 f-16’s and AWACS how much cheaper is the f-35?

Nothing specific comes to mind but I recall when the F-35 program was being criticized for having a lifetime cost of more than $1 Trillion the figure for upgrading and sustaining the various legacy fleets it would replace was around $3 Trillion.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh

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