F-16 versus J-10

[yasirbhojani]

Pakistani airforce won every battle with India.
1965,1971,1999

13th December2008, Pakistani F-16s successfully locks-on Indian su-30mki and mirage 2000.


When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and Indians was really tense over Bangladesh.

The Pakistanis whipped their asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial number, identified the components such as engines, rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the MiG-21 J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.
(General (Retd.) Chuck Yeager (USAF) , Book: Yeager, the Autobiography).

Thanks " kingcobra " for great information.
I wish there was a picture or video out there about our vipers locking onto Indian Flankers and Mirages. Is there any ? I know its kind of weird but I am crazy on this. Could anyone post it right here if he/she has the permission to do so ?

[tonini]

F-16 (c/d) is more economical and better armed but J-10 is faster and (according to Chinese military) have better radar and BVR.

http://www.aviatia.net/versus/j-10-vs-f-16/

[sherdils]

At the moment, Chengdu is embarking upon the series production of the newest version of the Jian-10. The J-10B consists of Divertless Supersonic Intake (DSI) design, Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Infra-Red Search & Track (IRST) sensor/probe, Radar Absorbent Material (RAM) on airframe, New-Gen Electronic Warfare (EW) suite, and most importantly, powered by WS-10 Taihang engines. With such new technologies being introduced, the J-10B is well set to match and/or outclass the F-16 C/Ds, in nearly every air combat parameter.

The Shenyang WS-10 Taihang engines are rated more powerful than the Saturn AL-31 engines. Producing 30,000lbs of thrust (WS-10B), which is the engine variant designated for the J-10B Dragon. Engine's design is centered on FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) and the technology on the engine has matured since it's inception, which was back in 2002, a decade ago. The engine gives the J-10B the capability of challenging any adversary in it's class. The WS-10 Taihangs are also set for TVC (Thrust Vector Control) technology, which is intended later production Blocks of J-10Bs.

FYI, there is an intended acquisition plan of a total of (150) J-10Bs, by Pakistan Air Force (PAF). The initial agreement was signed in 2006 and Pakistan Air Force (PAF) would take the first delivery J-10Bs, by end of 2013. The first batch of J-10Bs for Pakistan Air Force (PAF), would be of 40 aircraft.

In related news, China has, over the years, pitted it's J-10A's against Russian made Su-30MKK Flankers and Su-27s. The over all result, in air-to-air combat, has been decisively in favor of the J-10A, who has consistently defeated the Su-30MKK Flanker in engagements. This is perhaps the single most inviting reason why Pakistan has chosen the J-10B, an improved and more advance version of the Chengdu fighter. Effectively insuring Pakistan Air Force having a potent deterrent against the enemy, hindustan's Su-30MKi Flanker.

[southernphantom]

My question would be: will the J-10B enter service in sufficient numbers to accomplish anything, and if it does, will the F-35 have reached IOC and moderate-scale service by that date??

[wrightwing]

At the moment, Chengdu is embarking upon the series production of the newest version of the Jian-10. The J-10B consists of Divertless Supersonic Intake (DSI) design, Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, Infra-Red Search & Track (IRST) sensor/probe, Radar Absorbent Material (RAM) on airframe, New-Gen Electronic Warfare (EW) suite, and most importantly, powered by WS-10 Taihang engines. With such new technologies being introduced, the J-10B is well set to match and/or outclass the F-16 C/Ds, in nearly every air combat parameter.

I'd be curious to see the comparisons between the APG-80/RACR/SABR, and a first generation Chinese system, in terms of real world capability/functionality. Additionally, it's sort of ambiguous, mentioning RAM, as most 4th Gen fighters have some sort of RAM usage. It'd also be interesting to see how capable the EW suite is compared to the latest available for the F-16. Now let's talk about weapons integration/flexibility. How many different types of PGMs are available for the J-10. The F-16 can carry a huge variety of stores, sensor pods, etc... I suspect that the F-16 would have an edge in air to air weapons as well, with JHMCS/AIM-9X, and AIM-120C7/D.

The Shenyang WS-10 Taihang engines are rated more powerful than the Saturn AL-31 engines. Producing 30,000lbs of thrust (WS-10B), which is the engine variant designated for the J-10B Dragon. Engine's design is centered on FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) and the technology on the engine has matured since it's inception, which was back in 2002, a decade ago. The engine gives the J-10B the capability of challenging any adversary in it's class. The WS-10 Taihangs are also set for TVC (Thrust Vector Control) technology, which is intended later production Blocks of J-10Bs.

What's the TBO on the WS-10s these days? They were pretty unreliable not too long ago.

[sherdils]

My question would be: will the J-10B enter service in sufficient numbers to accomplish anything, and if it does, will the F-35 have reached IOC and moderate-scale service by that date??

The intended total acquisition of J-10s by China is between the 500-700 mark. Mind you, this is only for the PLAAF and does not count any possible interest or intent by PLANAF.

Given the current state of the JSF program, it is hard to say. As I read in this month's issue of Air International, things aren't looking all that well for the F-35 Lightning ll. In fact, there are rumors that everyone (in the US Congress and White House) are waiting or wanting for the other to pull the plug on the JSF program.

The simple reason for this atmosphere is because the estimated cost of the F-35 Lightning ll, is mushrooming to the extent that it is threatening to exceed the cost of it's big brother, the far superior, F-22A Raptor.

Now considering the fact that the JSF program touted the F-35 to be an affordable, cost-effective and advance fighter, and was marketed to the partner nations as such. The news of the growing costs on the JSF program, has in fact, discouraged the partner nations. In turn, these partner nations (Norway, Netherlands, Britain, Canada, Italy, Australia and Turkey) are actually looking to either reduce the number they originally intended to buy or scrap the procurement plans all together.

Today, there is a heated debate going on in Canada, to scrap the procurement of F-35 Lightning ll.

So to say whether the J-10B would be operational in sufficient numbers, before or by the time the F-35s are in service, is anyone's guess. We shall have to wait and see how China goes about it's design, development and full scale production of it's new fighter-jets, such as the J-10B, J-11B, J-20 & J-15s.

[firstimpulse]

My question would be: will the J-10B enter service in sufficient numbers to accomplish anything, and if it does, will the F-35 have reached IOC and moderate-scale service by that date??

Given the current state of the JSF program, it is hard to say. As I read in this month's issue of Air International, things aren't looking all that well for the F-35 Lightning ll. In fact, there are rumors that everyone (in the US Congress and White House) are waiting or wanting for the other to pull the plug on the JSF program.

The JSF is a pretty good example of "Too big to fail". Regardless of how good the program's doing, which actually isn't anywhere near cancellation, several countries have lined up to buy the fighter. And more are doing so- some good examples being Japan and Taiwan (although ROC might not get what they want because of the appeasment the US is using on the PRC).
The F-35 is one of (if not THE) largest technical challenge ever attempted in aeronautics. Not surprising they've hit several snags.

[firstimpulse]

My question would be: will the J-10B enter service in sufficient numbers to accomplish anything, and if it does, will the F-35 have reached IOC and moderate-scale service by that date??

And my answer to this is... Probably not. The J-10B is a pretty big technical leap over the original verison, similar to how the very latest block 60 Viper compares to a C/D model, IIRC. I believe the current focus of the PLAAF is to get rid of its antiques, and then hit the 4.5/5th generation platforms. They're replacing the antiques with classics- going from F-4E class J-8s to F-15C class J-11s.

[bayernfan]

My question would be: will the J-10B enter service in sufficient numbers to accomplish anything, and if it does, will the F-35 have reached IOC and moderate-scale service by that date??

And my answer to this is... Probably not. The J-10B is a pretty big technical leap over the original verison, similar to how the very latest block 60 Viper compares to a C/D model, IIRC. I believe the current focus of the PLAAF is to get rid of its antiques, and then hit the 4.5/5th generation platforms. They're replacing the antiques with classics- going from F-4E class J-8s to F-15C class J-11s.

Recent news is that J-10B enters mass-production phase. Apparently China is making a big deal out of it. It certainly no match for fifth generation F-22 and F-35, but how about with F-16 newer version? or even F-15, F/A-18 (sorry for the little off-topic)?

[viperzerof-2]

https://www.defenceview.in/chinese-j-10 ... -problems/ Pakistani pilot who flew both says the F-16 has better STR and Acceleration while the J-10 has better ITR.

[viperzerof-2]

So apparently this is the sustained turn rate of the J-10? Sea level? I’m not sure what altitude this represents but maybe someone familiar with the flanker can comment?

[eloise]

So apparently this is the sustained turn rate of the J-10? Sea level? I’m not sure what altitude this represents but maybe someone familiar with the flanker can comment?

I actually have S-30 manual , unfortunately I’m in hospital and probably have stuck here for a week at least

[viperzerof-2]

So apparently this is the sustained turn rate of the J-10? Sea level? I’m not sure what altitude this represents but maybe someone familiar with the flanker can comment?

I actually have S-30 manual , unfortunately I’m in hospital and probably have stuck here for a week at least

oh my god I’m so sorry. Feel better. Well wishes

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

So apparently this is the sustained turn rate of the J-10? Sea level? I’m not sure what altitude this represents but maybe someone familiar with the flanker can comment?

I actually have S-30 manual , unfortunately I’m in hospital and probably have stuck here for a week at least

oh my god I’m so sorry. Feel better. Well wishes

Seconded.

[ljqc]

So apparently this is the sustained turn rate of the J-10? Sea level? I’m not sure what altitude this represents but maybe someone familiar with the flanker can comment?

IMG_0544.png

It's an invented term called 'B-value' and is said to be calculated by maximum load factor + maximum sustained load factor + SEP (m/s) * 0.03.

SEP under what load factor however is unknown. Presumably at 1G since at a predetermined mach number, the higher g you pull, the lower SEP you get. Aircraft loadings and testing conditions are also unknown.