MiG-31 vs F-16 - BVR engagement

Agreed, it will never be a fair fight but how would the F-16 match up against the ... ?
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nastle2000

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Unread post26 Nov 2004, 20:31

Hello guys this is my first post!

In the mid 1990s Russians operated a lot of MiG-31s. My question is, how would these interceptors fare against the F-16s of a third world nation (eg. Egypt or Turkey) in a BVR engagement. My understanding is that in the mid 1990s Egyptian F-16s were not equipped with the AIM-120 and probably only with AIM-7(which has a much inferior range than a AA-9).

Remember, Ii am only asking for the results of a BVR engagement, in
dogfight we all know who the winner will be.

Thank you.
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lamoey

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Unread post26 Nov 2004, 23:51

I wonder if this battle woudn't end up as a draw? The Foxhound may see the Viper on his radar earlier, but the Viper will know that he is being observed by a Foxhound, with its monster missiles, and will probably reconsider available options, and stay out of range if possible. Obviously as long as he stays out of range he can't fire anything back, so the whole meeting only takes place within the avionincs.

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DeepSpace

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Unread post26 Nov 2004, 23:54

I think I'll go with Fintonov.

The MiG-31 has the SBI-16 Zaslon, maybe the most powerful radar for fighters. The two R-15BD-300
engines will give the MiG 11,015 LB of power each and a max speed of MACH 2.83, and that's before we staretd to talk about the AA-9 (R-33) with the range of 160 KM.
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nastle2000

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 00:22

Thank you guys this is pretty much what I thought ... the big and powerful MiG will prevail in a long range battle in which avionics will be decisive. Although I can't understand why the Russians kept so many Foxhounds operational in the post cold war era (425! according to military balance 1996-97) when the Fulcrums and Flankers were clearly better suited to tactical needs of their airforce...
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lamoey

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 00:26

Radar and Range is my guess
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Phoenix

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 13:59

Yeah, it's always nice to have something that can swat people out of the sky at great ranges...
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nastle2000

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 18:05

How difficult would it be for a F-16 to evade the salvo of AA-9s? And why do the Russians have Aphids and Archers on the Foxhound? Is it really any good in an air-superority role?
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Dammerung

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 19:37

I would assume, for two Reasons.

First, if an Enemy Fighter gets in Close, without those, it's toast.
Second, if it needs to make visual ID, I'd think using an R-33 would be a waste at that range...
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nastle2000

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 23:02

so the short range AAMs are for "self-defence".
can a MiG-31 carry the AA-10 cuz if it can it probably has a good chance of scoring a hit against agile fighters(like F-16s)
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Dammerung

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 23:27

No, it only carries the R-33, R-60, and GSh-6-32... I can't see any other reason, as the R-60 has a Max Range of only 8km... It can't carry the R-73 either...
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nastle2000

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Unread post27 Nov 2004, 23:36

Thanks dammerrung... so against agile targets the MiG-31 only relies on its cannon and the R-60? As I think the AA-9 is not very good against fighters . correct me if I am wrong.
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CheckSix

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Unread post30 Nov 2004, 00:35

I've also seen R-77 underwing a MiG-31. It would be logical, even the simple MiG-29S can operate them, why not the 31E/M?

1 vs 1 there is hardly a chance for F-16 evading 4 R-33E's, and maybe R-77s. and even if F-16 comes close, MiG-31 is some 1000km/h faster.
Chasing an MiG-31 Aim-120 range would shrink to 5 km or so.
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Unread post30 Nov 2004, 12:38

nastle2000 wrote:although I cant understand why the russians kept so many foxhounds operational in the post cold war era (425! according to military balance 1996-97)when the fulcrums and flankers were clearly better suited to tactical needs of their airforce.
thanks


The vast Siberian tundra was the reason why. The tundra was considered as a natural ingress route for the US bombers, so they needed a long range plane capable of high speed interception with minimal GCI support. Flankers and Fulcrums are no use (and probably always bingoed) without GCI support far away from their operating bases in the tundra.
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Dammerung

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Unread post01 Dec 2004, 02:51

The R-77's range is classified, but it's not a megastick like the R-33. F-16 could nail it with an AMRAAM for sure at R-77 range. Also, only the MiG-31M carries R-77. The R-33 Most likely is like the AIM-54, a bomber-killer. Also, A fighter hardly ever travels at Top speed, the MiG-31 would be out of fuel and out of options if he tried to outrun an AIM-120 at close range. It would take maybe 2-3 mins to get to top speed.

Also, the MiG-29S is the most advanced Fulcrum to my knowledge. Keep in mind also, the AIM-120 is a Mach 4 Missile. The MiG would have to make a 180 deg turn(do it fast and you dump all of your E), and then accel to max speed, dumping probably all of his fuel to outrun it... Probably better just to risk beaming and then dodge- I believe the MiG-31 has the SPO-15 Beryoza RWR, and it will pick up ARH Missiles, and make it easier to time a missile evasion...
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nastle2000

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Unread post01 Dec 2004, 03:01

Guys, my original question was about a BVR fight b/w a MiG-31 and an F-16 NOT equipped with AIM-120, as I pointed out earlier it is set in mid -1990s when F-16s of middle eastern nations did not have AIM-120 (isreal got its AIM-120 in 1998 ).....in this scenario I think fintonov, checksix are right the big and powerful MiG will be at an advantage as long as it keeps its distance (AIM-7 and AIM-9 will be useless at these ranges) and use its AA-9
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