F-35 performance at Haboob Havoc 2019

F-16ADF · by **F-16ADF** » 15 Jul 2019, 21:35

Yes!!!

The Coonass Militia flying the legendary F-4C Phantom II.

I think they dropped the name in the very early 1990's or so.

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 15 Jul 2019, 22:21

I had a couple of La Guard Hun students at Tucson. I 'spect they also won the hangar party. :mrgreen:

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 16 Jul 2019, 00:42

it could be that unit (La Guard Eagles) smoked everything that wasn't an F-35 and lost against every F-35 they were up against. We don't know.

How many planes did the A-10 shoot with it's gun?

If the F-35s won every fight against the Eagles, and didn't win highest kill ratio, that means they had a number of losses to the other involved aircraft....possibly the lowly A-10s....

How embarrassing.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 16 Jul 2019, 00:53

Or, based on a scripted setup (BFM) with additional artificial restrictions (radar reflectors, No over-the-shoulder HOBS, No 9x, etc) the F-35 was not allowed to play to it's strengths.

Just ask Raptor pilots what that feels like.

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 16 Jul 2019, 00:58

They wanted the event to be "easy and fun", this is not a Red Flag style competition.

Enjoy the fun, I'm sure everyone would prefer being in the F-35 for real, but fun these days is at a premium.

edit: Actually from what I gather, BFM is one of the F-35 strengths. :shock:

f-15c85-0114 · by **f-15c85-0114** » 16 Jul 2019, 03:38

Who is F-15C opponent?

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 16 Jul 2019, 03:44

f-15c85-0114 wrote:Who is F-15C opponent?

"...‘What we did was have two points that were 10-15 miles away from each other, so you show up at that point and you both turn in, and then you end up fighting whatever you get across from you. The whole idea was [to see] what is that other aircraft? Move in for a visual, decide what your advantages are, and see who could take better advantage of those.’ All aircraft types taking part in ‘Haboob Havoc’ engaged in the BFM engagements — even the A-10s.…"

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 16 Jul 2019, 10:11

hythelday wrote:Quickest radar kill means little,

I'm curious as to why?

hythelday wrote: "turns like a snowboard in powder snow"

This was specifically used to describe the C model

hythelday wrote: "Heritage reports" F-15C pilots favored Eagle only in perch setup but overwhelmingly voted F-35A better at "close range".

Remember those F-15s were said to be piloted by the air-air specialists of the Louisiana ANG. Biggest factor in BFM is the man in the box

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 16 Jul 2019, 13:21

outlaw162 wrote:If the F-35s won every fight against the Eagles

Did they?

outlaw162 wrote:and didn't win highest kill ratio, that means they had a number of losses to the other involved aircraft....possibly the lowly A-10s....

How embarrassing.

If, and, if, and, and, and. . . . We both know if the A-10 gunned down an F-35 the news would be around the world already and the usual suspects would be crowing about it.

I would also like to know if they gimped the F-35 just to give everybody else a chance.

sprstdlyscottsmn · by **sprstdlyscottsmn** » 16 Jul 2019, 14:30

of course they gimped it.

outlaw162 · by **outlaw162** » 16 Jul 2019, 14:57

Back in the day, occasionally when we'd fight the Eagles with our lesser craft, we'd do one engagement of 'battle-damage' BFM (F-15 pulled one engine to idle to simulate damage) so we could have some chance of enjoying our cold beer at the end of the day.

Maybe they had the F-35s fight in idle. :doh:

These set-ups were ideal for pilot enjoyment, going head to head from 10 miles for some good old fashion guns-only BFM against an 'unknown' type. I'd have loved to have been in any of the four types involved. A-10 is a pretty good BFMer, I wouldn't discount their performance in this scenario. It doesn't get any better for morale all the way around, win or lose. It was a party.

(I'm surprised that apparently the Tucson Guard wasn't invited.)

optimist · by **optimist** » 16 Jul 2019, 15:11

It's a funny old world, it wasn't that long ago that the Indian SU and migs were flogging the F-15 in an exercise. They had to have the F-22. Now the f-15 is flogging everything and they have to have the f-15ex. Therefore it's true, the russian stuff from the 80"s rule the sky. :mrgreen:

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 16 Jul 2019, 15:28

outlaw162 wrote:Back in the day, occasionally when we'd fight the Eagles with our lesser craft, we'd do one engagement of 'battle-damage' BFM (F-15 pulled one engine to idle to simulate damage) so we could have some chance of enjoying our cold beer at the end of the day.

Maybe they had the F-35s fight in idle.

These set-ups were ideal for pilot enjoyment, going head to head from 10 miles for some good old fashion guns-only BFM against an 'unknown' type. I'd have loved to have been in any of the four types involved. A-10 is a pretty good BFMer, I wouldn't discount their performance in this scenario. It doesn't get any better for morale all the way around, win or lose. It was a party.

(I'm surprised that apparently the Tucson Guard wasn't invited.)

There was at least one instance during Desert Storm where an A-10 pilot almost got to try out the gun on a Mig-29. But then an Eagle showed up. . .

(1:14)

doge · by **doge** » 16 Jul 2019, 22:20

I found a photo of F-16C that participated in Haboob Havoc 2019.

https://gramha.net/explore-hashtag/haboobhavoc
Most F-16C configurations carry a centerline tank, but non-tank F-16C can also be seen.
F-16D was carrying both wing tanks.
Regarding the under wing pylon and missiles, Most of the F-16s have pylons under the wing, but some have no pylons under the wing.

If...If F-35 Killed this lightweight loading F-16C, it's Greatest Excellent...!

firebase99 · by **firebase99** » 17 Jul 2019, 02:54

Im a bit confused on most posters assessment of the F-35. IMO, it did well, as it was the jet that had the most handicaps, and arguably the most severe one - lenses. Like asking a sniper to drop the rifle and go get a knife and it STILL did well.