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Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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notkent

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Unread post16 Oct 2019, 17:50

All the F-35 critics don't seem like they have much to say lately.
Some of them must have gotten caught up in that "death spiral" they were always warning about.
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XanderCrews

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Unread post16 Oct 2019, 18:10

sferrin wrote:"(EDITOR’S NOTE: Contrary to what is stated above, there is nothing ‘curious’ about the fact that the F-35 was designed without chaff or IR flare launchers.

Since its stealthy design was claimed to make the F-35 invisible to radar, there was clearly no need for active countermeasures like chaff to protect it from radar. This same reasoning explains why no other US Air Force ‘stealth’ aircraft, from the F-117 to the F-22 and B-2, are not fitted with any.

By the same logic, the fact that chaff is now planned to be retrofitted to the F-35A merely confirms that, a quarter-century since it was designed, ‘stealth’ is no longer a sufficient guarantee of the F-35A’s survival in combat – if it ever was.

And this clearly poses a major problem, since ‘stealth’ is the promise that justified the aircraft’s many design limitations in terms of speed, range and weapon payload.

If ‘stealth’ is no longer the combat asset its manufacturer has long claimed to justify these limitations, the F-35A becomes just another aircraft with mediocre performance – but with a high sticker price and huge operating costs.) "


Because the F-35 is getting chaff dispensers. :roll: (Like the F-22 has had since day one. )

https://www.defense-aerospace.com/artic ... nough.html


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ricnunes

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Unread post16 Oct 2019, 18:22

Actually, I have a sort of a request for the community here:
Please, let's not waste any time and bytes giving Giovanni "Brain Fart" de Briganti any kind of notoriety from now on. :wink:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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boogieman

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Unread post21 Oct 2019, 00:44

Isn't he on the Dassault payroll? Thought I heard that somewhere. Would explain a lot...
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Corsair1963

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Unread post21 Oct 2019, 01:31

With so much "disinformation" spread over the web everyday. This has to be a concerted effort by the Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans, and Russians. In order to weaken the F-35 Program and the Western Defense Establishment in General.


Even the French are suspect in my opinion. Especially, as it relates to the F-35! :shock:
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ricnunes

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Unread post21 Oct 2019, 14:40

Corsair1963 wrote:With so much "disinformation" spread over the web everyday. This has to be a concerted effort by the Chinese, Iranians, North Koreans, and Russians. In order to weaken the F-35 Program and the Western Defense Establishment in General.


Even the French are suspect in my opinion. Especially, as it relates to the F-35! :shock:



Yes, I would say that the European military aerospace in general (namely Dassault/French government, Airbus and Saab) have their share of responsibility regarding the "disinformation" spread about the F-35 program. They (European military aerospace) probably see this as a means to be able to keep/continue "in service" when it comes to fighter aircraft since probably for the first time in the history of military aviation the Europeans don't have anything that can rivalize with US fighter aircraft - this case the F-35 - this either by technical specs/capability or by price cost (or both).
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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krieger22

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Unread post13 Nov 2019, 11:26

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"Look, we have to spend more effort on ECM than an F-22 or F-35, and here's why it's a good thing."
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notkent

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Unread post13 Nov 2019, 12:46

Now I am getting confused, was told by the F-35 critics that;

Speed is the new stealth
Small low cost fighters are the new 6th generation
Maneuverability is the new stealth when everyone has stealth fighters
Now its ECM is the new stealth - they do know that the F-35 has ECM capabilities?
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ricnunes

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Unread post13 Nov 2019, 20:49

Oh no, not this "Active Stealth" BS again! :doh:
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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boilermaker

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Unread post14 Nov 2019, 06:43

ricnunes wrote:Oh no, not this "Active Stealth" BS again! :doh:


Looking at the history of the efforts to scramble the signals of IEDs from mere goat humpers armed with walky talkies, and the difficulties they had to deal with, any sort of active stealth to me needs to be taken with a grain of salt. I think a dedicated team aircraft equiped with a suite like the EA-6 Prowler would be what is needed. A pod wont cut it.

It probably works in some configurations but it probably limits the craft's own communication and radar picture, and it probably is limited in scope and can be detectable via passive means.

It is an intersting research but still in its infancy, imo, in terms of fielding and provability. I would be hard pressed to see this pod tested at Red Flag and hear F35 pilots say they were caught unawares by a Grippen...
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ricnunes

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Unread post14 Nov 2019, 20:13

boilermaker wrote:It is an intersting research but still in its infancy, imo, in terms of fielding and provability. I would be hard pressed to see this pod tested at Red Flag and hear F35 pilots say they were caught unawares by a Grippen...


There's nothing fancy and in its infancy regarding this. There's no such thing as Active Stealth. There's ECM/Jamming pods and that's all this is -> A more powerful defensive jamming pod with probably/likely some Electronic Attack capabilities.
As such there's nothing special about this being a technology in its infancy and in need to prove any new capabilities.
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post14 Nov 2019, 20:18

A Barracuda suite can hide blue F-16s from red F-16s without being detected itself. That is as operationally close to "active stealth" as you can get. It's here now, and it is not in a pod.
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ricnunes

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Unread post14 Nov 2019, 20:36

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:A Barracuda suite can hide blue F-16s from red F-16s without being detected itself. That is as operationally close to "active stealth" as you can get. It's here now, and it is not in a pod.


Yes, and aircraft like the Growler can do similar things, although the F-35 is likely more effective since it can get closer to the enemy radar sources (due to stealth).

But something tells me that since "Jamming" is "Active" that it can be counter-detected (as opposed to "passive"/real stealth).
“Active stealth” is what the ignorant nay sayers call ECM and pretend like it’s new.
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sprstdlyscottsmn

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Unread post14 Nov 2019, 21:06

ricnunes wrote:But something tells me that since "Jamming" is "Active" that it can be counter-detected (as opposed to "passive"/real stealth).

Absolutely. That becomes a battle of "how discreetly can my jammer work to not trigger the other guys EW?" which I would think is a function of the RCS being hidden and range. Hiding an F-35 is childs play, hiding an F-16 isn't too hard, but hiding a B-52 might well be impossible for a Barracuda.
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lbk000

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Unread post15 Nov 2019, 20:48

Just waiting for when they'll be calling the F-35 out for not having a 1:1 KDR.

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