F-35A at Red Flag 19-1

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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hornetfinn

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Unread post18 Feb 2019, 13:40

popcorn wrote:So how does it work. The AMRAAM seeker is activated when it it sure by the INS that the target should be within a certain calculated range? Might there be an option for the F-35 to activate the seeker for more precise targeting?


I think the activation distance depends on many factors and I really doubt there is any set universal distance where it goes active. I think distance and time to estimated impact point are likely factors. Target maneuvering and target tracking and update quality/estimated accuracy likely affect that also. It might well be that F-35 can provide so good targeting data that missile activation is done later than with say 4th gen fighter with MSA radar. But this is just my guess and it might also differ from AMRAAM version. Like A-version is probably much more primitive (as it was hardwired missile) even in this compared to D-model for example.
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popcorn

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Unread post18 Feb 2019, 13:48

hornetfinn wrote:
popcorn wrote:So how does it work. The AMRAAM seeker is activated when it it sure by the INS that the target should be within a certain calculated range? Might there be an option for the F-35 to activate the seeker for more precise targeting?


I think the activation distance depends on many factors and I really doubt there is any set universal distance where it goes active. I think distance and time to estimated impact point are likely factors. Target maneuvering and target tracking and update quality/estimated accuracy likely affect that also. It might well be that F-35 can provide so good targeting data that missile activation is done later than with say 4th gen fighter with MSA radar. But this is just my guess and it might also differ from AMRAAM version. Like A-version is probably much more primitive (as it was hardwired missile) even in this compared to D-model for example.


IIRC that during tests to prevent the destruction of a valuable target drone, the AMRAAM is presumably commanded to self-destruct. If the F-35 cancontrol the AMRAAM up to that point then maybe it's possible to navigate the missile. closer to the target before commanding g it to activate the radar seeker? If so, that should do wonders for kill probability.
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Unread post18 Feb 2019, 14:04

The aim-120 is a bit of a black box. It's reported to have a good fire and forget range. From what I gather, like everything else, believe half of what is published and the good stuff isn't mentioned at all.

It's said the geeks who sim on home computers, that have screen scraped and got hints from x-service members in them. They have grouped every bit of data they can find. They probably have the best unclassified info. I'm not into it and I can't recommend one group over another.

Anyway given the aussies have ordered 450 of the aim-120d. I hope they are okay
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 00:55

SpudmanWP wrote:
Hill Airmen, F-35 a lethal combo at Red Flag

During the first week of Red Flag, the F-35 pilots flew in a larger force of Blue Air in a counter-air mission. More than 60 aggressor aircraft were flying against them, blinding many of the fourth-generation aircraft with “robust” electronic attack capabilities.


http://www.dvidshub.net/news/310967/hil ... o-red-flag


I'm surprised no one else has called BS on this claim. Anyone who knows anything about RF knows 6-8 Aggressors challenge each push--not 60. The only thing I can think it MIGHT be referencing is 60 all week but if true the wording definitely needs to be fixed by the PA honks at Hill..
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 01:02

ruderamronbo wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:
Hill Airmen, F-35 a lethal combo at Red Flag

During the first week of Red Flag, the F-35 pilots flew in a larger force of Blue Air in a counter-air mission. More than 60 aggressor aircraft were flying against them, blinding many of the fourth-generation aircraft with “robust” electronic attack capabilities.


http://www.dvidshub.net/news/310967/hil ... o-red-flag


I'm surprised no one else has called BS on this claim. Anyone who knows anything about RF knows 6-8 Aggressors challenge each push--not 60. The only thing I can think it MIGHT be referencing is 60 all week but if true the wording definitely needs to be fixed by the PA honks at Hill..


It didn't say all at once and Aggressors generate after each loss. This is hardly anything new or surprising....
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popcorn

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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 01:04

ruderamronbo wrote:
SpudmanWP wrote:
Hill Airmen, F-35 a lethal combo at Red Flag

During the first week of Red Flag, the F-35 pilots flew in a larger force of Blue Air in a counter-air mission. More than 60 aggressor aircraft were flying against them, blinding many of the fourth-generation aircraft with “robust” electronic attack capabilities.


http://www.dvidshub.net/news/310967/hil ... o-red-flag


I'm surprised no one else has called BS on this claim. Anyone who knows anything about RF knows 6-8 Aggressors challenge each push--not 60. The only thing I can think it MIGHT be referencing is 60 all week but if true the wording definitely needs to be fixed by the PA honks at Hill..


RF has been upgraded in terms of the threats capabilities to give 5-gen Blue Force as challenging a workout as possible so not really implausible.
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
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ruderamronbo

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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 01:14

During the first week of Red Flag, the F-35 pilots flew in a larger force of Blue Air in a counter-air mission. More than 60 aggressor aircraft were flying against them, blinding many of the fourth-generation aircraft with “robust” electronic attack capabilities.

RF has been upgraded in terms of the threats capabilities to give 5-gen Blue Force as challenging a workout as possible so not really implausible.

60 Aggressors and 40-50 Blue aircraft, at the same time, on the range? You're kidding right? BTW where would those 60 Aggressors come from? What units?
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 01:20

The best source of units at any Red Flag is here:
http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/flag_units.html

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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 02:04

ruderamronbo wrote: ... BTW where would those 60 Aggressors come from? What units?

SpudmanWP wrote:The best source of units at any Red Flag is here:


So basically the 64th has 24 fighters, Draken has 34 A4/L159s - (58 of 60 if they had months to get all the birds up which they did) Still, if they only sortied 50% or even less, the regen rate would only be 1 or two regens.. very plausible. Even with a third, or a quarter of the fleets 2 or 3 regens is not extreme.

FWIW,
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 09:50

ruderamronbo wrote:60 Aggressors and 40-50 Blue aircraft, at the same time, on the range? You're kidding right? BTW where would those 60 Aggressors come from? What units?


I've been involved in exercises here in Finland where 40 to 50 fighter jets have been in the air at the same time very much fighting each other. Of course that intensity was the maximum there was, but they were not isolated incidents either. I have no doubt that USAF can pretty easily put together similar amount of jets, especially with the help of companies like Draken. I don't think Red Force even needs to be dedicated Aggressors necessarily (at least not all).
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 11:13

Whole, point of Red Flag is to hold a vast and complex exercise with a large numbers of participants. In order to recreate the most likely scenarios for the real thing! (i.e. large scale vs near peer conflict)



NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, NV, UNITED STATES

02.08.2019

Story by Micah Garbarino

388th Fighter Wing  

The desert screams by below. The clouds scream by above. Both stretch on into the horizon. It’s deceptively calm in the cockpit. There’s a constant, seemingly discordant stream of chatter coming through his helmet. The digital screens in front of him, along with images projected onto his visor, provide enough information to save lives and take a few as well. In the sky ahead are more than 60 advanced enemy aircraft, flown by some of the best fighter pilots in the world. They are hunting – looking to kill him and his wingmen. He just graduated pilot training. Welcome to Red Flag.

“I haven’t been flying that long. There are things that stand out in my career. My first solo flight, my first F-35 flight and my first Red Flag mission. I don’t think I’ll ever forget those things,” said 1st Lt. Landon Moores, a new F-35A Lightning II pilot with the 388th Fighter Wing’s 4th Fighter Squadron.

Moores is one of a handful of young F-35A pilots who recently graduated their initial training and are currently deployed here as part of Red-Flag 19-1. Now they are being battle-tested.

“Going from F-35 training a little over a month ago to a large force exercise with "dozens of aircraft" in the sky is pretty crazy,”


https://www.dvidshub.net/news/310624/tr ... 35a-pilots
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 13:06

[:what would RedForce mindset knowing they we're going to g up against the F-35?
Video Version of Maj. Flatley (USMC -ret.) Experience flying against vs. the F-35 for the first fime some years back
https://youtu.be/x2VqDgaj1M4
"When a fifth-generation fighter meets a fourth-generation fighter—the [latter] dies,”
CSAF Gen. Mark Welsh
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Unread post19 Feb 2019, 13:17

The full text of the video was posted earlier by 'Dragon029' just after a few sentences were posted by 'kimjongnumbaun':

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52884&p=367210&hilit=flatley+crushing#p367210 TEXT FROM:
An F-35 pilot explains how the stealth fighter can have a crushing psychological effect on the enemy
05 May 2017 Alex Lockie

Source: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/psyc ... ter-2017-5
A4G Skyhawk: www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ & www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/videos?view_as=subscriber
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Unread post20 Feb 2019, 19:04

Just a small Red Flag related quote from Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Dave Goldfein at a Brookings Institution event Tuesday.

Even in 2017, the F-35 reportedly dominated the competition with a 20:1 kill ratio.

A dozen F-35As from the 388th Fighter Wing’s 4th Fighter Squadron, out of Hill Air Force Base, Utah, participated this year, and the aircraft were flush with the latest software updates.

“We have an upgraded software suite that has improved our sensor fusion. We’ve got an expanded flying envelope with more maneuverability," Lt. Col. Yosef Morris, 4th Fighter Squadron commander, said in a statement.

During Red Flag, which ended Friday, Goldfein said the aircraft was "exceeding our expectations when it comes to not only being able to survive, but to prosecute targets.


https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your ... -red-flag/
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Unread post21 Feb 2019, 07:49

popcorn wrote:IIRC that during tests to prevent the destruction of a valuable target drone, the AMRAAM is presumably commanded to self-destruct. If the F-35 can control the AMRAAM up to that point then maybe it's possible to navigate the missile. closer to the target before commanding g it to activate the radar seeker? If so, that should do wonders for kill probability.


And that's without considering what subtle EA could do to further boost PK, and even push a pilot into making the wrong defensive choice if they were alerted late. So many nasty options emerge when they don't know you're there.
Accel + Alt + VLO + DAS + MDF + Radial Distance = LIFE . . . Always choose Stealth
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