Reports of F-35B Crash/Pilot Ejection MCAS Beaufort

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steve2267

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Unread post01 Oct 2018, 17:16

Just an FYI that orients the reader to the locale of the reported crash site, Little Barnwell Island to Merrit Airfield At MCAS Beaufort. I have read one news report, posted here I think, that stated the pilot was not attempting to land. Dunno if he had just taken off or what. I'm trying hard to wait for any solid information released by the USMC instead of speculating.

Anyway, FWIW...

F-35B_crash_LittleBarnwellIsland_location_relative_Merrit_Field.PNG
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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ricnunes

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Unread post01 Oct 2018, 19:49

SpudmanWP wrote:Pilot released from Hospital
The Beaufort Marine Corps Air Station pilot who ejected from an F-35 jet Friday morning before it crashed on Little Barnwell Island has been released from the hospital, according to Lt. Samuel Stephenson of the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing.

...

The pilot, a U.S. Marine, ejected safely, Harrison said, and was evaluated by medical personnel.

No casualties on the ground were reported and the aircraft was not carrying any ordnance, Harrison said.

Stephenson said Saturday morning that flight operations at the air station will continue as normal Saturday and that the 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing will also continue to operate as normal until directed otherwise.


More at the jump
https://www.islandpacket.com/news/local ... =mainstage


Glad that the pilot is ok!
A 4th/4.5th gen fighter aircraft stands about as much chance against a F-35 as a guns-only Sabre has against a Viper.
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lamoey

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Unread post02 Oct 2018, 21:25

I have not seen any information about any grounding, even temporarily, of any of the F-35 fleet, following the crash. Does this indicate they have information enough to tell it was not a technical malfunction that caused the crash?
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Unread post02 Oct 2018, 22:15

'lamoey': "...Does this indicate they have information enough to tell it was not a technical malfunction that caused the crash?" As good a guess as any. I'm certain once something official is said about the crash cause we will know about it eh.
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Dragon029

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Unread post02 Oct 2018, 23:06

Something to remember too is that when we had the first F-35B written off for a weapon bay in-flight fire they didn't ground any jets because the issue was known and theoretically manageable via increased monitoring of that wiring bracket in maintenance. If the F-35B didn't suffer something like a low altitude bird strike then it could have been a known, theoretically manageable problem.
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steve2267

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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 01:41

Sucking a good sized bird through the lift fan might ruin your whole day, esp. depending on where you might be in STOVL Mode 4.

I know they fired frozen chickens at the aircraft canopy. Do we know to what extend they fired birds through a running F135 and/or the lift fan?
Take an F-16, stir in A-7, dollop of F-117, gob of F-22, dash of F/A-18, sprinkle with AV-8B, stir well + bake. Whaddya get? F-35.
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element1loop

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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 02:18

Dragon029 wrote:Something to remember too is that when we had the first F-35B written off for a weapon bay in-flight fire they didn't ground any jets because the issue was known and theoretically manageable via increased monitoring of that wiring bracket in maintenance. If the F-35B didn't suffer something like a low altitude bird strike then it could have been a known, theoretically manageable problem.


Many civil aircraft send logs on limit-exceed, performance trend, anomalous incidents, via SATCOM while in flight.

Not regarding this particular incident per-sec, but do you know if it's the case an F-35 in flight does this to give basic information on aircraft condition to maintenance and logistics heads-up. Or to make schedules for checks or part orders so an off-aircraft datalog of a developing system issue (non bird-strike, etc.) exists on the ground before an incident/accident occurs? I vaguely remember something along those lines being discussed (separate to the false-positives diagnostic issues). In new aircraft the trend is to move such data off the aircraft (or at least to duplicate it off-aircraft in relevant locations) before it turns into an incident, and before it lands, mitigating the potential for another complete data loss event from a crash. I would have expected that sort of system to also occur for a new production fighter like F-35, given fighter crashes or damage events can often lead to a complete loss, especially for a single. You'd want that data on the ground first, if you could get it in bursts before the aircraft was unable to transmit. And you can get it, or some of it, so the mysteries of prior-gen aircraft losses shouldn't be as opaque now, or slow to grasp the under laying nature, or course of events. The indicators should already exist off board and some of the crash event data should have also been sent, before it hit the ground. There’s no reason why high bandwidth comms can’t keep sending detailed emergency incident data after an ejection has occurred. In fact, besides raising flags everywhere, I’d make it the system’s last act and highest priority, as soon as an ejection is initiated.

i.e. you 'eject' the aircraft condition data, incident data, and basic flight data, not just the pilot.

To my way of thinking, detailed data on a crash's sequence of events should exist on the ground, before the lost aircraft hits it.
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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 02:52

lamoey wrote:I have not seen any information about any grounding, even temporarily, of any of the F-35 fleet, following the crash. Does this indicate they have information enough to tell it was not a technical malfunction that caused the crash?

"...Finally, Winter [head of the Joint Strike Fighter program, Vice Adm. Mat Winter] noted that neither Britain nor the Marines have taken any fleet-wide actions to curb F-35B flights in the wake of last Friday’s crash near Beaufort, S.C. Normally, if a systemic problem is suspected as the cause of a major crash a fleet might well be grounded or stood down for a safety review. That, Winter noted, has not happened." 02 Oct 2018 https://breakingdefense.com/2018/10/f-3 ... 100-f-35s/
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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 02:54

Last I recall reading about ALIS transmitting data from an F-35 & F135 inflight was that it was imminent but not now for various reasons. Perhaps an ALIS update has rectified that issue - meanwhile saving data when F-35 on the ground was very slow but speeded up recently by an ALIS update. I guess ALIS thread should have details.
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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 02:57

steve2267 wrote:Sucking a good sized bird through the lift fan might ruin your whole day, esp. depending on where you might be in STOVL Mode 4.

I know they fired frozen chickens at the aircraft canopy. Do we know to what extend they fired birds through a running F135 and/or the lift fan?



I can't find it, but there's a video where they shoot the chicken at the F-35B door and the fan just spits it out.
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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 03:01

steve2267 wrote:Sucking a good sized bird through the lift fan might ruin your whole day, esp. depending on where you might be in STOVL Mode 4.

I know they fired frozen chickens at the aircraft canopy. Do we know to what extend they fired birds through a running F135 and/or the lift fan?

"I'll tell you a story about a man named Steve - a poor mountaineer but he kept his family fed".... A long long time ago now F-35A AA-1 was destroyed gradually deliberately along with a STOVL engine separately in a necessary mandated event. IIRC correctly the engine did good suffering lots of damage along with the LiftFan I think but of course one would have to know ALL THE DETAILS eh. Otherwise I recall a comment from a GENERALE to the effect that one could throw a flat iron? into the engine and it would still run (perhaps I've exaggerated). Who knows. Supposedly the F-35 is an all round tough bird, there is even a story the flight controls can compensate for damage very well - even if half a tail? is missing. The stories EH. :roll:
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Unread post03 Oct 2018, 03:13

Here we go: "...the F-35 can fly with one horizontal tail and one rudder missing...." http://www.aviationpros.com/article/109 ... ke-fighter

Could not recall all the amerkanisms LIVE FIRE TEST: http://www.bahdayton.com/surviac/asnews ... ring10.pdf
&
F135 LIVE FIRE TEST: http://jaspo.csd.disa.mil/images/archiv ... spring.pdf

THE TWO PDFs are ATTACHED probably because they no longer reside at the URLs but DUNNO. Note that the F135 STOVL engine test included a FUEL INGESTION TEST Series for those concerned about fuel leaking from hose drogue earlier. AND.... I'm certain this same material has been posted several times in various places in this forum so go look for it.

SEARCH ON JASPO to find stuff: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=25547&p=289805&hilit=JASPO#p289805
&
2012 'SWP' find: viewtopic.php?f=54&t=14199&p=221179&hilit=JASPO#p221179
Attachments
LIVE FIRE TEST F-35 & F135 includes FUEL INGESTION TOLERANCE PRN pp5.pdf
(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 161 times
RAN FAA A4G Skyhawk 1970s: https://www.faaaa.asn.au/spazsinbad-a4g/ AND https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwqC_s6gcCVvG7NOge3qfAQ/
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Unread post11 Oct 2018, 15:19

The F-35B crash was due a faulty part and not a design issue.  Temp fleet grounding till inspected.

“The U.S. Services and international partners have temporarily suspended F-35 flight operations while the enterprise conducts a fleet-wide inspection of a fuel tube within the engine on all F-35 aircraft,” the F-35 Joint Program Office announced in a statement Thursday morning.

“If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status. Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours.”


​​​​​​​More at the JUMP
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/y ... all-f-35s/
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Unread post11 Oct 2018, 15:40

To be expected from time to time - when you have one engine.
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Unread post11 Oct 2018, 16:12

Plenty of Hornets (both Classic and Super) have crashed when only one engine failed.

The myth of 2 being statistically better than one has been debunked a long time ago.
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