PODcast - Parts I & II: F-35 in the Crossfire [Sprey/Berke]

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 20 Jul 2017, 23:02

Part I: F-35 in the Crossfire
20 Jul 2017 Lara Seligman

"Pentagon Editor Lara Seligman leads a debate about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with two seasoned experts – retired Marine Lt. Col. David Berke, a former F-35B and F-22 pilot and Pierre Sprey, who helped conceptualize the design of the F-16 and A-10 fighters. In this episode, they discuss whether the F-35 can fight in combat as advertised."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft ... -crossfire

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 20 Jul 2017, 23:26

OMFG.....

The BS from Lara & Sprey started to roll from the very first sentence.

I wish they did this as a Video so I could see the Lt. Col.'s face as Sprey droned on... :doh:

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 20 Jul 2017, 23:45

Part II: F-35 in the Crossfire
20 Jul 2017 Lara Seligman

"Pentagon Editor Lara Seligman leads a debate about the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter with two seasoned experts – retired Marine Lt. Col. David Berke, a former F-35B and F-22 pilot and Pierre Sprey, who helped conceptualize the design of the F-16 and A-10 fighters. Among the topics in this second part of the series is whether the cost of the $400 billion program is worth the capability of the aircraft."

Source: http://aviationweek.com/combat-aircraft ... -crossfire

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jul 2017, 00:04

Lol.. The Lt. Col ripped them a new one for insinuating that a pilot would hide issues or not tell the truth in fear of "losing his job".

Damn I want to see that video.

juretrn · by **juretrn** » 21 Jul 2017, 00:07

To me this is a great opportunity to make Sprey look silly even more.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 21 Jul 2017, 00:16

Damn he's an idiot. I would love to debate him but I've been told not to beat up the mentally handicap.

Lol.. He still wants to buy "basic" F-16s (with no BVR or multirole stuff).

I keep hearing the Lt. Col. Laughing at Sprey in the background.

juretrn · by **juretrn** » 21 Jul 2017, 00:42

Paraphrasing here:
Russian fighters are great for airshows, but I wouldn't take one into combat. -Pierre Sprey, 2017

For the next time you encounter a Russian troll that wants to use Sprey's arguments.

blindpilot · by **blindpilot** » 21 Jul 2017, 01:57

Interesting interview, thnx.

I do believe we need to get Berke immediate medical attention for his tongue. It has to be bitten clear through. Amazing level of patience, which we probably should expect from a Marine.

What he could do ... with his 22 plus years of actual real world experience in subjects, Sprey can't even comprehend, ... he did very well. I'm just going to address the thing he couldn't do. He couldn't say he "had fifty years" watching military procurement. He is simply too young .... so let's attack that question here and now.

Some .... many of us here have FIFTY plus years and WERE there when Boyd/fighter mafia etc. etc. was happening. (some one nudge Gums and wake him up).

So Berke addressed the reality of 25 years of history, up to the present and visions of the future, better than anyone. I'm going to speak of the time between 50 and 25 years ago.

Sprey is a freaking liar, idiot, and his very credentials are distorted from what actually happened in the fighter mafia days. His greatest contribution, (which was minimal to non existent technically, and marginal in theory) was for a cheap day fighter vision of the F-16A, and the total trashing of what the F-15 would be.

Well. He was wrong! The F-15 was, and probably is one of the greatest air superiority fighters in history IN WAR The F-16 was quickly changed into a multi-role F-16C and beyond fighter, with lots of expensive gadget avionics, radars, and pods. If it hadn't, the "day fighter" would have been way outclassed by the threats Israel and others faced (see F-4s in Yom Kipur war). Israel would not exist if Sprey was even close to knowing anything right. Sprey was totally wrong fifty years ago! He is full of sh@t. That's what Berke kept wanting to say, but was being polite to the old man.

Well we were there, old man !!!! when the first F-15A went operational, and when the F-16A was matured into the top fighter it has become. We were there, when the Air Force tried to plan what the A-10 contribution to stopping the Russian tank invasion wave might or could not be, cringing at the reality.

Sprey basically in this video slandered airmen, officers, and professionals with impunity. His entire argument is the generals are liars, the pilots are liars, the workers in the industry are liars. Well I will gladly trash him and I'll be telling the truth.

So you will hear on this board some blunt statements. Here's one. Sprey couldn't design a paper air plane that would go past his own feet. AND he never did design anything. His credentials are a fraud, stealing from the work of others. He's a washed up technocrat, a bureaucracy facilitator, trying to sound relevant. It's a shame he has gotten the ear of AvWeek and others in this debate, with a label he never earned. Berke should have just called him what he was... but he is a gentleman and an officer. I'm not sure I would have bit my tongue as hard.

Just MHO,
BP

PS We'll have to go offline for me to tell you what I really think ...

bring_it_on · by **bring_it_on** » 21 Jul 2017, 02:00

juretrn wrote:Paraphrasing here:
Russian fighters are great for airshows, but I wouldn't take one into combat. -Pierre Sprey, 2017

For the next time you encounter a Russian troll that wants to use Sprey's arguments.

For all the time he's spent on RT, he probably has never said that to their face.

kimjongnumbaun · by **kimjongnumbaun** » 21 Jul 2017, 10:34

I snickered when they said this was a discussion between two "experts" knowing that Sprey was on one side.

mk82 · by **mk82** » 21 Jul 2017, 13:30

F*ck Sprey......he got owned HARD!!!! :mrgreen:

Marines do lead the way!

" So you will hear on this board some blunt statements. Here's one. Sprey couldn't design a paper air plane that would go past his own feet. AND he never did design anything. His credentials are a fraud, stealing from the work of others. He's a washed up technocrat, a bureaucracy facilitator, trying to sound relevant. It's a shame he has gotten the ear of AvWeek and others in this debate, with a label he never earned. Berke should have just called him what he was... but he is a gentleman and an officer. I'm not sure I would have bit my tongue as hard"

This!

mk82 · by **mk82** » 21 Jul 2017, 13:33

This is an awesome song for Sprey.....Wrong wrong wrong wrong.....wrong wrong wrong wrong! Suits him well don't you think.

I believe Lt Col John Boyd actually hated that pr*ck as well.

XanderCrews · by **XanderCrews** » 21 Jul 2017, 15:36

Lol at the comments.

When your eye can just tell aerodynamics and all the pilots are just wrong

LMAO

grab6303 · by **grab6303** » 21 Jul 2017, 18:40

Blind Pilot...
Thanks for having faith in "us." I was one of those guys calling the baby ugly as we were working on it in the early LRIP days. The pilots were over on their side calling the baby ugly. Once a lot of the old heads from both sides got to Hill and received our later LRIPs the baby had grown into a pretty fine looking young lady. That only happened because none of us were ever "zippered" by a General or a Senator (we talked to plenty of both over the years). Keep fighting the good fight for us. Grab

kimjongnumbaun · by **kimjongnumbaun** » 21 Jul 2017, 21:11

He's just a pawn of the Russian disinformation campaign. The sad part is he doesn't even realize it or that he's working their agenda. Anything for a buck these days I guess. But that's the difference between a slime ball like him vs a military member like Berke. We wouldn't sell out our own country for Russian scraps after we have spent a lifetime defending it.