Favorite F-35 Quotes

[steve2267]

Yup. But when I searched this thread, none of those goodygoody quotes showed up. Soze I figured I'd throw 'em out for all to see. They seemed particularly apropos given recent discussion about the "infamous" "dogfight" test, and Spurts discussing a hugely enlarged E-M diagram possibly at 19,000 ft and comparing turn performance to the Viper.

I figger in that article that it wuz Vipers that the Panthers were raping. Don't think any other combat jet would drop all the way down to single centerline tanks.

[steve2267]

popcorn had a nice link to a British Tornado pilot's thoughts about the F-35 over in the UK muddle thread. Here's a nice quote:

No 17(R) Test and Evaluation Squadron, called the Black Knights, has been re-established as the UK’s premier unit for developing and realizing the potential of the Lightning II. Now based in the California desert at Edwards, handpicked personnel of this famous squadron are already engaged in the operational evaluation of the F-35 — learning about, flying, and maintaining this advanced fighter.

Wing. Cmdr. Jim Beck, the first officer to command a UK F-35 squadron, leads the Black Knights. ...

...

The system is clearly impressing Beck, who is a former Tornado pilot. “I simply cannot explain to you how good this sensor suite is,” he said. “It is mind-blowing. We don't actually even need to carry a weapon, albeit we can. I can track targets, identify them all, after having turned [nose] cold [away from the targets], then datalink that information to my Typhoons. The Typhoon pilots can then carry their ordnance to bear against the targets.

“So, I’ve identified everything at distances that no one thought previously possible,” Beck continued. “I’ve shared that data with other assets. I can lead them all into the fight. We are very focused on getting value for money and we can do a lot more by blending our assets.

“This jet isn’t just about the weapons — it’s a game-changing capability. The Tornado GR.4 can't just stroll into a double digit SAM MEZ [Missile Engagement Zone]. In the F-35 I can generate a wormhole in the airspace and lead everyone through it. There isn’t another platform around that can do that. This isn’t all about height and supercruise speed — it’s the ability to not be seen,” added Beck.

United Kingdom F-35B Testing, Jamie Hunter, 27 October 2015

The wormhole comment makes me wonder about an offensive EW attack carried out by the F-35 to "open this wormhole." While the F-35 can thread its way through various SAM sites because the MEZ will be smaller for the F-35, how could it lead other 4th gen jets through the same SAM minefield? This only makes sense if it is also able to electronically attack / blind the SAMs / ground radars.

[stereospace]

The wormhole comment makes me wonder about an offensive EW attack carried out by the F-35 to "open this wormhole." While the F-35 can thread its way through various SAM sites because the MEZ will be smaller for the F-35, how could it lead other 4th gen jets through the same SAM minefield? This only makes sense if it is also able to electronically attack / blind the SAMs / ground radars.

That made me perk up. I've never heard that before, and if your interpretation is true, that is a groundbreaking capability.

OTOH, if you position the wing aircraft in the F-35 shadow, that cone projected between the emitter radar and the F-35 then projected beyond it into space, that might create a wormhole zone as well. That would require precision flying, but it might work. That region would look like empty space to the radar.

[hornetfinn]

The wormhole comment makes me wonder about an offensive EW attack carried out by the F-35 to "open this wormhole." While the F-35 can thread its way through various SAM sites because the MEZ will be smaller for the F-35, how could it lead other 4th gen jets through the same SAM minefield? This only makes sense if it is also able to electronically attack / blind the SAMs / ground radars.

IMO, there are many reasons for this. First is that F-35 has far better SA of the overall situation, where the threat radars and other threat systems are and what they are doing. This allows F-35 to select the best route for 4th gens to follow and avoid the most threatening areas. Second is the VLO stealth capability which allows F-35 to go close to threat systems without being in danger itself. This allows F-35 to position itself best for the third point which is EA/EW capability. F-35 can actually do stand-in jamming which means it's near the threat radar and protected 4th gens are further away from it. Because of this and high gain jamming, it can use very little jamming power to protect the 4th gens effectively while enemy might never know they were being jammed. Of course this likely really works well only against high-frequency radars, but that's pretty much all is needed. Pretty much every potential threat system uses such radar for target tracking and engagement at least. Low frequency radars would be small in numbers and F-35 would know where they were and could avoid them.

[Dragon029]

The wormhole comment makes me wonder about an offensive EW attack carried out by the F-35 to "open this wormhole." While the F-35 can thread its way through various SAM sites because the MEZ will be smaller for the F-35, how could it lead other 4th gen jets through the same SAM minefield? This only makes sense if it is also able to electronically attack / blind the SAMs / ground radars.

While the F-35 could potentially be limited in how it can open wormholes for 4th gens through SAM minefields (simply due to the use of non-X band radars), it was able to make friendly F-16s completely invisible (through jamming) to OPFOR F-16s in this exercise:

www.f-16.net/forum/download/file.php?id=26975

'The initial scenario was that our two F-35s would escort a four-ship of F-16s across a notional border and protect them against another eight-ship of F-16s simulating a modern adversary. A relatively inexperienced flight leader was in charge of the F-16s on our side and Lt Col Joost 'Niki' Luijsterburg, the Tucson detachment commander, was responsible for the adversaries. Up to this point, we had only practised these scenarios in the simulators and while we had a decent game-plan, we were all anxious to see how the F-35 would perform in real life. We figured that the F-35's stealth would keep us out of harm's way for most of the fight, but that we also need to protect the friendly F-16s, maximise the lethality of their missiles and get them to the target. To make this happen, we planned to initially use electronic attack against the adversary F-16s, see if we could avoid having them detect friendly fighters and datalink the location of the hostile aircraft to our F-16s. This way we could use the F-16s on our side to shoot down the initial wave of enemy fighters and keep our own missiles available once the 'Blue Air' F-16s had to focus on their target attack. The plan worked flawlessly.

'In the debrief 'Niki' told us it was one of the most memorable sorties he had ever flown. Having previously worked in the F-35 program office he was elated to find out how effective the F-35 was, but at the same time he was frustrated by not getting a single shot off the rail against us, while getting killed multiple times. After that sortie it really hit us that the F-35 was going to make a big difference in how we operate fighters and other assets in the Royal Netherlands Air Force'.

[wrightwing]

The wormhole comment makes me wonder about an offensive EW attack carried out by the F-35 to "open this wormhole." While the F-35 can thread its way through various SAM sites because the MEZ will be smaller for the F-35, how could it lead other 4th gen jets through the same SAM minefield? This only makes sense if it is also able to electronically attack / blind the SAMs / ground radars.

IMO, there are many reasons for this. First is that F-35 has far better SA of the overall situation, where the threat radars and other threat systems are and what they are doing. This allows F-35 to select the best route for 4th gens to follow and avoid the most threatening areas. Second is the VLO stealth capability which allows F-35 to go close to threat systems without being in danger itself. This allows F-35 to position itself best for the third point which is EA/EW capability. F-35 can actually do stand-in jamming which means it's near the threat radar and protected 4th gens are further away from it. Because of this and high gain jamming, it can use very little jamming power to protect the 4th gens effectively while enemy might never know they were being jammed. Of course this likely really works well only against high-frequency radars, but that's pretty much all is needed. Pretty much every potential threat system uses such radar for target tracking and engagement at least. Low frequency radars would be small in numbers and F-35 would know where they were and could avoid them.

The F-35 can jam other frequencies than just X band, though that is certainly the most meaningful.

[hornetfinn]

Could not find this anywhere in the forum (probably because it's in French mostly), so this might be new here:
https://www.thomas-legrain-conseil.com/ ... -35-36.pdf

From page 62 onwards there is interview with USAF Colonel Pete “Coach” Fesler about the Atlantic Trident 2017 exercise:

Performing at a high level is one thing, altering the playing field is another. The 5th Gen aircraft has done that very thing, altering the classic air to air engagement in a fundamental way. Fesler noted, “the classic approach of shooting ones missiles and turning before the adversary can get a shot is predicated on the fact that the adversary sees you. In the 4th gen world that is the case. Ideally the pilot would like to be able to shoot, let their missile do the work and get away before the adversary can get a missile off. In the F-22 and F-35 world, the adversary doesn’t necessarily know where you are coming from. The 5th Gen pilot might shoot a missile and monitor to make sure it is effective. If the missile misses for any number of reasons, they are in good position for a follow-up shot. That is one of the fundamental differences between 4th Gen fighters and 5th Gen fighters. In general, in the 5th Gen world the adversary
doesn’t really know where you are coming from. They may have a general idea but not a lot of specifics. For 5th Gen pilots it’s a good place to be, to be able to roam around the battlefield faster than the speed of sound in an airplane that is largely undetectable all while your airplane is building a 3 dimensional picture of everything within a couple hundred miles of you.’’

This is interesting as it likely has pretty dramatic effect on air combat.

[mk82]

Mo: The F-16 and F/A-18 are extremely capable platforms and they do the swing role /multi role mission very well.

However, they are going to struggle vs Anti-Access/Area Denial (A2/AD) or IADS, and in those cases they will be on a dedicated mission. We do have a lot more flexibility to flip flop missions, and we do it a lot in training. We will escort a package on a strike mission and then we will break off do some A2G, or suppression of enemy air defenses (SEAD), perhaps some Combat Air Patrol (CAP) or dynamic targeting in the target area – then we’ll rejoin the package and come out with everybody.

Especially along with the F-22, we’ll open the door, wait while everyone else comes in and completes their mission, then come out with the package and close the door behind us.

We do some different things.

As Marines we are on call for a number of different missions, close air support (CAS) etc. that we could not have done in one airplane.

https://sldinfo.com/2016/12/the-moment- ... aordinary/

This has been quoted before, but brings up something in the vein of this thread.

What systems used to be used for "opening the door" and escorting strike packages?

We're talking Sparkvark, Prowler, and Growler mission profiles.

So you have a system that can do effectively most of what an F-22A does for air dominance with some limitations only in speed, service ceiling, and internal AAM load, but with much better sensors and next generation IR spectrum Search and Track.

Can pivot off the Electronic Support mission for opening up A2/AD and do whatever is needed, whether it be interdiction/strike, air dominance via CAP, SEAD, flexible attack on targets of opportunity, then re-join a 4th Gen strike package and provide Electronic Support escort on the way out.

This is freaking crazy. I've been reading about this, but each day, it feels like a new level of practical capability sets in again that further solidifies how much of a game-changer this really is.

The F35 is truly an onmirole fighter to the Nth degree. I like to think of the F35 as a Renaissance aircraft.....it does almost everything well. The F35’s information superiority plays a large part in enabling its remarkable onmirole capabilities.

[Dragon029]

From Reddit; a USAF GCI (Sandy88) talking with some other guys about working with different jets: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comment ... ets_super/

It's also substantially draggier than the A/C, mitigating most of the raw effectiveness of that additional fuel in a dash. You can hang bags, but then you're just compounding the problem.

Everybody's got a gas problem in BVR. Only player who doesn't is the Raptor.

Lol I wish that last part were true. Bolts are much better by comparison.

What is a Bolt? What aircraft has the best legs in your experience?

Bolt is what we've been dubbing the F-35, I know the USAF Weapons School has been rolling with Puma but I'm not sold. Anyway, if you want longevity get you a global hawk or MQ-9 those bad boys can stick around for 24 hours but if your strictly talking air-to-air fast movers the Bolt takes it by a mile.

[spazsinbad]

'BOLT' is not gunna FLY NAVY - too much like the BOLTER BOLTER BOLTER LSO call when aircraft bolters (misses wires).

[Dragon029]

More:

Cheers. How do you guys find the capabilities of the F-35?

If I could have them on every mission I would. Absolute powerhouse with the only limiting factor being missiles.

I figured the -35 would would be great with gas (love your nickname for it btw), but I figured the Raptor wouldn’t be as constrained as legacy platforms for the same reasons. Are the Raptors much better than legacy jets on endurance and the -35 even better or are the Raptors more or less like the legacy platforms.

On the open source side the Raptor can cover great distances quickly due to its Super Cruise many people confuse this with a long on-station time when in reality its really closer to an F-15C unless they put bags on the jet but then you lose all the advantages of being "stealthy". I was blown away by the Bolts loiter times when I first worked with them it really is an amazing jet. I'm pretty sure the -35 will end up being called the Puma my unit just uses Bolt for now.

F-15C with or without bags endurance? Still not too shabby either way. Great information, thank you for your time and service!

Without.

[spazsinbad]

My FAVE F-35 FITER PILOTE QUOTE EVA:

[SpudmanWP]

[sprstdlyscottsmn]

Dragon, I looked over a bit of that thread and noticed some asked Sandy88 if they were you.

[Dragon029]

He wasn't; the "u/dragon029" is the user Scotty1992 tagging me in a comment (put a "u/" before any username and that person gets notified that they were mentioned; Reddit accounts have urls of reddit.com/u/username) and essentially letting me know that the thread was something I might be interested in reading.