F-35 and Airshows

gta4 · by **gta4** » 14 Jul 2018, 07:01

mk82 wrote:The F35A RIAT 2018 display reminds me quite a bit of the Flanker Air Show displays but with more energy!

F-35's energy retention is 20% faster than a CLEAN flanker:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=52510

gta4 · by **gta4** » 14 Jul 2018, 07:05

So what F-35 has in its arsenal for now:

In the horizontal:

Very fast and tight J-turn
Very fast roll rate
Very fast energy retention

In the vertical:

Very fast and tight loop
Very fast climb rate

All these performance can be quantified (i.e. energy retention 20% faster than a clean flanker, roll rate exceeds 300deg/sec, etc)

saberrider · by **saberrider** » 14 Jul 2018, 10:21

vilters wrote:LOL again. real LOL.
You tell me to remember Red Flag Huh ! => OK, I will.

One of the last red Flags the A-10 scored the highest number of A2A kills.
So? ? ? => The A-10 is the best A2A fighter.

That is how "real" Red Flag has become these last years.

Maybe the criticism against F35 it is help with this
Red Flag result (A 10 best in A2A) because of ROE.

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 14 Jul 2018, 15:28

jetblast16 wrote:Thanks for posting! 3:57 was insane!! Stubby can climb and turn! You can SEE it has a lot of power

The roll authority at low speed there at 2:39 is notable. It's almost stopped there in the air but it still rolls right out. :shock:

Dragon029 · by **Dragon029** » 14 Jul 2018, 15:51

The Heritage Flight team are apparently taking full advantage of the Block 3F flight envelope:

https://twitter.com/Oriana0214/status/1 ... 2650079232

Hanging with the pilot who flew the US F-35A (Block 3F software) here at #RIAT18 just a few moments ago. He pulled 8.9Gs. Said this airshow really let's you test the limits. (Also this photo was taken by LM staff, from today's flight). Ps it's a nice weather day!

jetblast16 · by **jetblast16** » 14 Jul 2018, 16:05

2018 RIAT F-35A Demo -> brute force! I NEED to see this baby in action.

doge · by **doge** » 14 Jul 2018, 16:38

Dragon029 wrote:The Heritage Flight team are apparently taking full advantage of the Block 3F flight envelope:
https://twitter.com/Oriana0214/status/1 ... 2650079232
Hanging with the pilot who flew the US F-35A (Block 3F software) here at #RIAT18 just a few moments ago. He pulled 8.9Gs. Said this airshow really let's you test the limits. (Also this photo was taken by LM staff, from today's flight). Ps it's a nice weather day!

3F and 8.9G!! :shock:

I've been waiting eagerly for that! :applause:

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 14 Jul 2018, 20:43

Just saw 2 F-35 up close for the first time today at the Great New England Airshow

They weren't flying, but I was able to speak with one of the pilots. He flew F-15's for 7 years and has flown the F-35 for the last 2. Says 90% of things he does in the jet the F-15 can't do. The jet itself looks menacing from head on, like a spaceship from the back and somewhat pedestrian from the side. It's bigger than I thought, bulky would be how I would describe it. Yet sleek at the same time. Something about the smooth finish...

Spoke to an F-16 driver who was "Red Air" vs. the F-35. Didn't say where, not sure it matters. Said ground control told him exactly where the F-35 was, 1 o'clock 12 miles away. He said, "I pointed the radar out there and.... nothin'". You can't see the jet..". Now what I found intriguing was.... 12 miles? I would have thought they would see something at 12 miles, but apparently not.

Coupled with the RIAT 2018 display I just saw, a LOT of F-35 haters are going to wind up with egg on their face, and the jet itself is only going to get better..

mixelflick · by **mixelflick** » 14 Jul 2018, 21:45

After seeing this and speaking with F-35, 15 and 16 pilots today about the F-35's performance, I feel really, REALLY good we're buying thousands of these jets... :mrgreen:

The jet has survived a lot of bad press, a lot of hate and a lot of misleading headlines. Yet it is as Chip Burke said: "When you talk to people that actually fly and work on the jet, they'll tell you its a game changer". Something to that effect.

Well, I spoke with those people today. And he was right...

citanon · by **citanon** » 14 Jul 2018, 21:50

The RIAT performance from another angle:

citanon · by **citanon** » 14 Jul 2018, 23:38

The B model drops in and hovers around for a while:

spazsinbad · by **spazsinbad** » 15 Jul 2018, 00:24

I get an error message from link above, here is the working F-35B URL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKdKHZ25Sfw

Dragon029 · by **Dragon029** » 15 Jul 2018, 02:07

mixelflick wrote:Spoke to an F-16 driver who was "Red Air" vs. the F-35. Didn't say where, not sure it matters. Said ground control told him exactly where the F-35 was, 1 o'clock 12 miles away. He said, "I pointed the radar out there and.... nothin'". You can't see the jet..". Now what I found intriguing was.... 12 miles? I would have thought they would see something at 12 miles, but apparently not.

That sounds about right; looking up the public data on the F-16's APG-68 it has a detection range of 105km (56.7nmi) against a 5m^2 target. Doing the maths, against a -30dBm (golf ball) target it'd only be able to see the jet at about 7nmi, or against a -40dBm (marble) target it'd only be able to see it at about 4nmi. If you were an F-16 pilot you'd likely see the jet with your own two eyes before you can get a lock on it.

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 15 Jul 2018, 04:33

Dragon029 wrote:
mixelflick wrote:Spoke to an F-16 driver who was "Red Air" vs. the F-35. Didn't say where, not sure it matters. Said ground control told him exactly where the F-35 was, 1 o'clock 12 miles away. He said, "I pointed the radar out there and.... nothin'". You can't see the jet..". Now what I found intriguing was.... 12 miles? I would have thought they would see something at 12 miles, but apparently not.

That sounds about right; looking up the public data on the F-16's APG-68 it has a detection range of 105km (56.7nmi) against a 5m^2 target. Doing the maths, against a -30dBm (golf ball) target it'd only be able to see the jet at about 7nmi, or against a -40dBm (marble) target it'd only be able to see it at about 4nmi. If you were an F-16 pilot you'd likely see the jet with your own two eyes before you can get a lock on it.

Reminds of the F-15 exchange pilot who stated he couldn't lock onto an F-22 he could see out the front of his canopy. :lmao:

quicksilver · by **quicksilver** » 15 Jul 2018, 15:40

C'mon guys. The people who actually fly the thing have been telling the public for years how incredibly good this jet is; the new Heritage flight guy flies for a few minutes at RIAT and the sun now rises in the west??

Paris was very scripted (tight airspace box, demo time limits etc). This was a bit more 'operational' in flavor; it felt like -'let's just go rip-sh_t around the airfield for a bit' (although we know that's certainly not the case).

Another round of 'told ya so's' are in order and I'll bet you can find a few people in Fort Worth who are buyin'.