F-35 and Airshows

vilters · by **vilters** » 20 Jun 2018, 09:15

Red Flag to simulate realistic combat scenario's? => So there are Toyota's and mules with manpacks on the ground, Right?

Because THAT is the real enemy we are fighting in Afghanistan, Syria, Libia, Jemen, and the list goes on and on.
The last Air 2 Air war worth mentioning was between Irak and Iran from 1980 to 1988. And that's a long time ago.

OK, we have to prepare, we have to train, but we have to rethink how and against what.

What we are doing now is show.
My toy is better then your toy, and I can write the ROE's to prove it.

zero-one · by **zero-one** » 20 Jun 2018, 10:14

I'm sure they train for low end conflicts too.
But to suggest thats the only thing they should train for is beyond me.

The Philippine armed forces crushed ISIS insurgents with Toyotas, armored cars, RPGs and heavy machine guns in 5 months.
So I guess we can just reduce the size of the US armed force to field OV-10s and F/A-50s and we will be fine.

The show happens for a reason, we hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
The things you are saying now are exactly what was being thrown around back in Vietnam.
The problem in Vietnam wasn't really the lack of the gun or the lack or maneuverability on airplanes. It was training.
ACM was illegal back then because they didn't need it.

Do we really want to make the same mistakes again.

SpudmanWP · by **SpudmanWP** » 20 Jun 2018, 16:37

vilters wrote:Red Flag to simulate realistic combat scenario's? => So there are Toyota's and mules with manpacks on the ground

They do CAS at Red Flags along with CSAR, DCA, OCA, ISR, and a bunch of other acronyms that most people do not know. :doh:

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 20 Jun 2018, 22:03

SpudmanWP wrote:
vilters wrote:Red Flag to simulate realistic combat scenario's? => So there are Toyota's and mules with manpacks on the ground

They do CAS at Red Flags along with CSAR, DCA, OCA, ISR, and a bunch of other acronyms that most people do not know.

^^^^^^Exactly. We train for full spectrum warfare. The principles don't change. Only the complexity. CAS is CAS. BAI is BAI. ISR is ISR. The only differences in training scenarios, is whether the enemy has robust C2, SAMs, air power, EW/EA, etc.... If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

wrightwing · by **wrightwing** » 21 Jun 2018, 02:53

vilters wrote:Red Flag, => LOL.
The outcome of ANY Red Flag mission can be 100% predicted when you read the ROE.
I will remember a RED Flag the day they stop writing those crazy ROE's.

The ONLY ROE should be : Min Safety altitude is ….. Area is yours. … See you in debrief. Period.

Red Commander should attack with a UNKNOWN number, and an UNKNOWN combination of aircraft (enlarge that to UNKNOWN number of weapon systems (up to and including the shut down of the power system of the range), at UNKNOWN intervals.

Blue should be on alert ON THE ground and scramble an UNKNOWN number of UNKNOWN aircraft.

The ONLY 2 ROE's common for Blue and Red is the min safety altitude, and the losers pay the bar bill.

All the rest is comedy capers.

The outcome is not predetermined. The aggressor aircraft, SAM threats, etc... don't just roll over and die. If you screw up, you get shot. The only thing you got right was that they observe minimum distance/altitudes for safety.

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 21 Jun 2018, 03:12

wrightwing wrote:^^^^^^Exactly. We train for full spectrum warfare. The principles don't change. Only the complexity. CAS is CAS. BAI is BAI. ISR is ISR. The only differences in training scenarios, is whether the enemy has robust C2, SAMs, air power, EW/EA, etc.... If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 24 Jun 2018, 04:18

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 13 Jul 2018, 20:43

sferrin · by **sferrin** » 13 Jul 2018, 22:32

2:35 was interesting.

geforcerfx · by **geforcerfx** » 13 Jul 2018, 23:29

yeah the vertical at 1:30 was interesting, and that last hard pitch at 3:50 should shut up anybody about turning and power, lemme just pull a 180, accelerate, then go into the vertical, still accelerating, showing off some of those raptor genes.