F-35B (Non-US) Pocket Carriers

Discuss the F-35 Lightning II
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Oct 2012, 06:51

Probably the best recent article about potential F-35Bs for LHDs with an urge to plan baby PLAN! http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... ens#207563

Big Ships, Big Challenge By Alan Stephens, Deputy Chairman | Oct 2011
The Sir Richard Williams Foundation

http://www.williamsfoundation.org.au/si ... 202011.pdf (49Kb)

"...Whatever the government and the ADF might be saying now, it is certain that, as the in-service date for the LHDs grows closer, calls to acquire STOVL F-35Bs for the Fleet Air Arm will increase. There’s nothing wrong with that; on the contrary. But we do need to understand the issues.

Any one of the challenges outlined above warrants serious attention; in combination, they constitute a compelling case for action at almost every level of Defence planning."
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marksengineer

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Unread post07 Oct 2012, 23:42

Have USMC Harriers ever cross-decked with other Navies?
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spazsinbad

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Unread post07 Oct 2012, 23:50

Yes. I believe there are stories about such cross-decking on several threads in this very forum. The VLT (Very Long Thread A.K.A. 'Possibility small STOVL carrier USN/USMC') would be one as well as several about 'ski-jumps', 'UK MOD in a Muddle' and whatnots. There is one notable story about the USMC pilots ski jumping for the first time and absolutely being sold on it. But don't tell the USN.

STROLL down to BTM of de page:
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... %99#224217

Not to forget that in the dark ages USMC AV-8As cross-decked aboard HMAS Melbourne somewhere off the N.E. Coast of Oz c.1980?

NOT to FORGET of course the earlier USS F.D.R. AV-8A 1976-7 trials which were successful - also story on the VLT and probably elsewhere by now (UKmodMuddle). Such a good story worth repeating here:

AV-8A Harrier Tests [onboard USS F.D.R. 1976-7]

http://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/?page_id=2264

“...Her [USS F.D.R.] final cruise, which concluded on 21 April 1977, included the embarkation of AV-8A Harriers of Marine Attack Squadron (VMA) 231, the historic “Ace of Spades” squadron, marking the first deployment of Vertical Short Take Off and Landing aircraft on board a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier....”
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“...From June 1976 to April 1977, VMA-231 deployed with 14 AV-8As aboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CV-42). This deployment demonstrated that the Harrier could be completely integrated into normal CV air operations. Almost every conceivable takeoff & recovery option was flown: upwind, downwind, crosswind, and before, during, and after re-spots. The Harrier demonstrated not only that VSTOL operations could be conducted within the rigid framework of cyclic operations, but that because of VSTOL’s inherent flexibility, a carrier can launch & recover at any time and steam wherever desired while achieving a combat capability that does not exist when using only conventional aircraft. A STOVL jet is unrestrained by launch/recovery times & mission permitting, could fill in gaps created by the CV cycle. On 13 January 1977, two other Harriers made bow-on approaches and landing aboard the carrier, marking the first time a fixed wing aircraft had made a bow-on, downwind landing aboard a carrier at sea....”
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 04:26

I'd like to see them use an S-curve catapult launch from an offboard rail system. Use a combination of steam/emals and gravity to essentially ski jump. Not only that but you could attach the aircraft to its rail link from a vantage point that isn't obstructing the top deck and not exposed to weather effects. The tri hull design (ala Littoral Combat Ship) would allow you room to launch through the hollow areas between hulls while also able to recover aircraft on the rear platform. Match this up with the fifty knots that the tri hull should be capable and you have excellent maximum load and bringback possibilities. I'm sure it would make a guy want to lose his lunch once in awhile - launching like a downhill roller coaster - but it would sure cut down the need to do the job above deck.

p.s. I realize the F-35B isn't made for catapult launches. It should have had some minimum ability to do it.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 04:48

madrat wrote:I'd like to see them use an S-curve catapult launch from an offboard rail system.


Googled "S-curve catapult." Didn't find anything accept this thread. :(
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 06:03

'madrat' I think we all have minimum ability to be catapulted - but to what end? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cD_oTV2wI
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 06:10

spazsinbad wrote:'madrat' I think we all have minimum ability to be catapulted - but to what end? :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5cD_oTV2wI


I've heard about this gag, but never seen it. :D
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 06:13

USN 'Shooters' (Catapult Officers) have their boots catapulted on their last day. Photo to follow.

Best paean to 'cat o' here: http://tailhookdaily.typepad.com/tailho ... ooter.html
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"NORTH ARABIAN SEA (March 20, 2010) Lt. Cmdr. Kim Dacosta catapults her boots off the flight deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) to commemorate her last launch aboard the ship."

http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 6E-148.jpg
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 09:10

1st503rdsgt wrote:
madrat wrote:I'd like to see them use an S-curve catapult launch from an offboard rail system.


Googled "S-curve catapult." Didn't find anything accept this thread. :(


S-curve is a mathematical shape. It's not a true S, just similar to the letter's shape.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 12:21

You probably would want more of a "J" curve than an S. It might save space to have some kind of moving tram that the aircraft are clamped to, so that you don't need a ramp for the main gear.
And, while I would love to see the Independence class sport an F-35, I don't think there is anything like room to launch one from the gap between it's hull and outrigger, and the deck isn't set up to give the clearance forward to catapult anything.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 16:21

Over on Secret Projects, I once saw some interesting ideas about using expendable rocket trolleys to throw STOVL fighters off the ski-jump of a very small tri-hull carrier. I'll look around.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 17:30

count_to_10 wrote:You probably would want more of a "J" curve than an S. It might save space to have some kind of moving tram that the aircraft are clamped to, so that you don't need a ramp for the main gear.

And, while I would love to see the Independence class sport an F-35, I don't think there is anything like room to launch one from the gap between it's hull and outrigger, and the deck isn't set up to give the clearance forward to catapult anything.


No, I meant the mathematical S-curve; fits more length to accelerate in a given length. Mother nature uses S-curves for good reason. I realize the LCS is small, but the basis of the design was scalable. I'm thinking of a 3-dimensional engineered solution rather than a simple 2-dimensional diagram. The idea is to utilize otherwise unused space and do it in an affordable fashion. If super short takeoff's were the goal at any cost we'd see rato-assisted straight vertical takeoffs.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 17:54

'madrat': "...rato-assisted straight vertical takeoffs." WOW. And a very thick steel deck to withstand the heat. UhOH. Back to melting decks. :D These sorts of ideas were investigated some 3 decades ago. You have not mentioned SKYHOOKs yet (a great Oz Band by the way). So I'm looking forward to that. Isn't there a soft rock band called 'S Bend'?
Last edited by spazsinbad on 08 Oct 2012, 18:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 18:31

Here's the crazy launch idea I was talking about for a small (well, small by US standards) trimaran carrier. Here's the thread that goes with it. http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/i ... pic=6441.0

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Unread post08 Oct 2012, 18:44

Will the expendable rocket trolley catapulting ski jumping running standing still trimaran have only VL recoveries? Wot? No SKYHOOK? Bugga. So now not as much BrungBack?
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