F-16 in Syria advertising and truth

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blackuday

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 03:46

MiG-25PD ("the product 84 A", 1978) - fighter-interceptor. Installed Radar "Sapphire 25" with the calculator AVM-25, capable of detecting targets with more than 10 m² of the RCS at a distance of 100 km

МиГ-25ПД («изделие 84Д», 1978 год) — истребитель-перехватчик. Установлен радиолокатор «Сапфир-25» с вычислителем АВМ-25, способный обнаруживать цели с ЭПР более 10 м² на расстоянии 100 км

http://modernweapon.ru/aviatsiya/istreb ... -sssr.html
http://army-world.ru/?page_id=928

On the first night of the war, two F/A-18s from the carrier USS Saratoga were flying outside of Baghdad when two Iraqi MiG-25s engaged them. In the beyond-visual-range (BVR) kill, an Iraqi MiG-25 piloted by Zuhair Dawood fired an R-40RD missile. The missile impacted Scott Speicher's F/A-18 head on. The impact sent the aircraft spiraling downwards. The wreckage was discovered in 1993; Speicher was buried near his wrecksite by local bedouin nomads. Russian sources claim also numerous other hits on coalition aircraft, however only a clumsy effort appears to have been made to match the supposed events to actual coalition aircraft being damaged or lost – often these claims are on wrong date compared to the actual aircraft damage or loss time and place, except Speicher's Hornet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

17Jan91 96FS MiG-25PDS witheld R-40RD F/A-18C AA400 VFA-83/USN (note 6)

http://www.acig.info/CMS/?option=com_co ... &Itemid=47

RCS F/A-18C = 1-3m2 (add missile, extra fuel tank, ECM pod, targeting pod)
MiG-25 can detected F/A-18C from 74km and shot down it from 50 km (R-40RD specs, R-40RD can reach to 60-80 km)
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eloise

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 04:54

blackuday wrote:All just a personal opinion, the US radar completely not good as advertised

No,it is a fact that fighter radar doesn't cover 360 degree around it , it is also a fact that radar doesn't scan it's whole FoV at the same time but rather divided it into small sector , the only thing that is a opinion here is your assessment that US radar completely not good as advertised

blackuday wrote: remember the Iraq War, the F / A-18 was shot down by MiG-25 with medium-range missiles, MiG-25 has a larger RCS F / A-18. F / A-18 has better FCR, can detect the MiG-25 at longer ranges

During the Kosovo war in 1999, F-16AM had to resort to the help of the E-3 AWACS to detect and attack MiG-29 by AIM-120, although F-16AM's FCR also better than FCR's MiG-29

During the Vietnam War, F4 is equipped with radar, but it does not work as advertised for early detection of MiG-17/21

Most of USAF victories, recorded by AIM-9

in all 3 scenario you listed above was due to ROE
in the F-18 case , the pilot did detect the Mig-25 and lock it , however due to IFF problem , AWACs confirm that the Mig-25 was friend rather than foe , thus leading to F-18 pilot decision of not attacking
in the F-16 case , F-16AM only have APG-66 ,which have around 40 miles range again an F-4 , even less if F-4 fly at lower altitude , E-3 have much more powerful radar and IFF system so it isnt really something extraordinary that the E-3 detect Mig-29 and alert F-16 about their present .That being said , however F-16 formation did detect Mig-29 eventually on their radar and destroy it
The four F-16AMs headed out toward the threat, working to detect the MiGs on their own radars. Subsequently, one of the MiGs was picked up by all four F-16s. When within range, our flight leader fired one AMRAAM against the MiG. It was an instant hit, after a flight of 30 seconds."

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article607.html
the F-4 case is a problem of both ROE , IFF and SA
the amount of USAF fighter over north Vietnam were huge , IFF system wasn't exactly reliable back then , along with the fact that Viet pilot doesn't have to care about ROE ( they rarely fly so the risk of friendly fire is tiny ) , that really limit USAF pilot option ( due to ROE ,they really cant fire missile from BVR )
also North VietNam pilot were often guided by CGI , to sneak behind bomber/strike formation and attack them , instead of trying to go head on with US fighters flying CAP .
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eloise

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 05:47

blackuday wrote:F / A-18, as you say, APG-65 radar was detected early MiG-25 from 90km, but I did read the capacitliy of the APG-65 radar can detect targets (perhaps the fundamental plane) from 80 nautical miles = 148km.....again, the US radar is not working properly advertise
As I said, the American airplanes they advertise most, with APG radar long range and without independent AWACS can still operational, although the rival aircraft are large RCS
MiG-25 is a less maneuverable aircraft and large RCS, I think the radar APG having a problem that is calculate their speed, can they detect them in the range of advertising, but tracking them it is another matte.
In the case of MiG-25 and F / A-18, I think the F / A-18 was able to detect the MiG-25 at the 148km range, but because the MiG-25 at Mach 2.5 in practice flight, radar APG-65 therefore can only track it in the range of 90 km....The problem here, range detection, tracking range and attack range , the 3 different concepts
F/A-18C can detected MiG-25 from 148 km
But F/A-18C just can tracking MiG-25 from 90km
And F/A-18C just can engaged MiG-25 from 75 km (AIM-120B specs, head-on engagement)


There is one thing you say that true , that is detection range is longer than tracking range , but that is the same for any radar , Chinese ,European , Russian ..etc not just the American one . Because the max detection range ( the advertised detection range ) are always taken in velocity search mode .
03_20111231111331.jpg

Velocity Search mode mean the PRF ( Pulse repetition frequency ) are set at maximum , higher PRF mean more power on target , more power mean more reflection , this mode is specifically for detecting medium and high closure targets, with the cost of not detecting low and no-closure targets at . Velocity search mode displays targets on the radar screen by azimuth and velocity instead of by azimuth and range.
Velocity search however doesn't give range information , as a result it can only be used for detection rather than tracking (or targeting ) . To understand why velocity search cannot give range information you have to understand the principal of how a radar work , basically radar send out a pulse , waited for the pulse to reflected back
3678-004-E7B655EE.jpg

velocity are measured by the change in frequency (doppler effect ) , distance to target are measure by taking
{ ( pulse travel time) x( the speed of the pulse) }/2
in velocity search , many new pulses are sent before original pulse comming back, thus radar cant determine the distance.

Anyway since radar use doppler effect to measure aircraft velocity and distinguish them from clutter such as ground return , the faster enemy aircraft is , the easier it would be to detect them ( since the frequency change will be more significant). Stationary target or target that fly perpendicular to the radar are effectively invisible in air to air mode

Image
very early primitive radar would get some problem with extreme closing velocity , such as an SR-71 go head on again AIM-7 at max speed , but with newer generation of radar , that really isn't a problem anymore


P/S : :? your main problem is that you have such a strong anti American agenda that you refused to accept any information that doesn't support your point of view , we can explain things to you all days and whatever doesn't fit your agenda that American weapon suck will be considered propaganda ,so what the point ? if you want to hear people say " yeah ,US weapon are just advertising ,never work ..etc " then why even bother coming here ? why not come to some Chinese or Russian forum ? iam sure there will be many members there that will say exactly what you want to hear
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neurotech

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 06:42

eloise wrote:
blackuday wrote: remember the Iraq War, the F / A-18 was shot down by MiG-25 with medium-range missiles, MiG-25 has a larger RCS F / A-18. F / A-18 has better FCR, can detect the MiG-25 at longer ranges

During the Kosovo war in 1999, F-16AM had to resort to the help of the E-3 AWACS to detect and attack MiG-29 by AIM-120, although F-16AM's FCR also better than FCR's MiG-29

During the Vietnam War, F4 is equipped with radar, but it does not work as advertised for early detection of MiG-17/21

Most of USAF victories, recorded by AIM-9

in all 3 scenario you listed above was due to ROE
in the F-18 case , the pilot did detect the Mig-25 and lock it , however due to IFF problem , AWACs confirm that the Mig-25 was friend rather than foe , thus leading to F-18 pilot decision of not attacking
in the F-16 case , F-16AM only have APG-66 ,which have around 40 miles range again an F-4 , even less if F-4 fly at lower altitude , E-3 have much more powerful radar and IFF system so it isnt really something extraordinary that the E-3 detect Mig-29 and alert F-16 about their present .That being said , however F-16 formation did detect Mig-29 eventually on their radar and destroy it

One of the stupidly ironic parts of the RoE was that the USAF insisted on IFF confirmation before shooting at the hostile fighter, yet the US Navy F-14s had TCS and could get a long range Visual ID well before the F-15Cs could close in for a Visual ID.

Recent news reports have confirmed that USAF F-16s are now using IRST pods for long range Visual ID over Syria. F/A-18F Super Hornets also have IRST pods and some crews miss flying the F-14 with its TCS capability.
eloise wrote:
The four F-16AMs headed out toward the threat, working to detect the MiGs on their own radars. Subsequently, one of the MiGs was picked up by all four F-16s. When within range, our flight leader fired one AMRAAM against the MiG. It was an instant hit, after a flight of 30 seconds."

http://www.f-16.net/f-16-news-article607.html
the F-4 case is a problem of both ROE , IFF and SA
the amount of USAF fighter over north Vietnam were huge , IFF system wasn't exactly reliable back then , along with the fact that Viet pilot doesn't have to care about ROE ( they rarely fly so the risk of friendly fire is tiny ) , that really limit USAF pilot option ( due to ROE ,they really cant fire missile from BVR )
also North VietNam pilot were often guided by CGI , to sneak behind bomber/strike formation and attack them , instead of trying to go head on with US fighters flying CAP .

Didn't the VF-1 and VF-2 pilots have rifle scopes on their jets during the 1975 mission over Saigon? Even though no air-to-air combat took place, the F-14s were perfectly able to get Visual IDs on any threats.

The F-35 will have EOTS for long range Visual ID, and the Navy Admirals will still remember flying F-14s and hopefully avoid stupid politics dictating Rules-of-Engagement over common sense.
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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 09:58

blackuday wrote:
oldiaf wrote:So .. Nothing wrong in what I said ... The F/A-18 locked the MiG-25 first


Any official sources confirm? not from forum ok !

F / A-18, as you say, APG-65 radar was detected early MiG-25 from 90km, but I did read the capacitliy of the APG-65 radar can detect targets (perhaps the fundamental plane) from 80 nautical miles = 148km.....again, the US radar is not working properly advertise

Image

F-15 used to AIM-9 and AWACS attack on MiG-21

[url]F-15 Versus MiG-21

On 2 June 1979, Israeli F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks flew to attack suspected terrorist bases near Sidon in southern Lebanon. Flying cover for the attack aircraft was a force of six F-15s and two Israeli-built Kafir fighters. All aircraft were guided by an E-2C AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control System) aircraft, a modified 747 that carried sophisticated radar and tracking equipment.

At approximately 11:00 a.m., the attack force was bounced by 8 to 12 Syrian MiG-21 aircraft. The F-15s and Kafirs immediately identified and engaged the MiG-21s. Within a three-minute period, six Syrian MiG-21s were downed and several others were reportedly damaged.

Of the six downed MiG-21s, four were destroyed by infrared homing missiles, one by a Sparrow radar-guided missile, and one by gunfire at close range. Five “kills” were given to F-15s and one to a Kafir.

The Israelis continued their reconnaissance flights, and on 19 September 1979, the MiG-23 made its combat debut when a flight of these newer Soviet-made aircraft fired air-to-air missiles at an Israeli F-4 Phantom. The F-4 was able to avoid the missiles (probably AA-8 Aphid infrared homing types) and return safely to base.

The Israeli intelligence service determined that a similar attack was planned five days later. So, on 24 September 1979, F-15s were again flying high cover when the controlling AWACS aircraft detected a large group of MiG-21s approaching. In this second brief air battle, four more MiG-21s were shot down. Again no F-15s were lost.[/url]


http://www.flightsimbooks.com/f15strike ... f_F-15.php

As I said, the American airplanes they advertise most, with APG radar long range and without independent AWACS can still operational, although the rival aircraft are large RCS

MiG-25 is a less maneuverable aircraft and large RCS, I think the radar APG having a problem that is calculate their speed, can they detect them in the range of advertising, but tracking them it is another matte.

In the case of MiG-25 and F / A-18, I think the F / A-18 was able to detect the MiG-25 at the 148km range, but because the MiG-25 at Mach 2.5 in practice flight, radar APG-65 therefore can only track it in the range of 90 km....The problem here, range detection, tracking range and attack range , the 3 different concepts

F/A-18C can detected MiG-25 from 148 km
But F/A-18C just can tracking MiG-25 from 90km
And F/A-18C just can engaged MiG-25 from 75 km (AIM-120B specs, head-on engagement)

No AIM-120 in DS ... The F/A-18C were carrying AIM-7 ... and regarding source ... The Iraqi pilot sent me the details himself
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oldiaf

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 10:04

blackuday wrote:MiG-25PD ("the product 84 A", 1978) - fighter-interceptor. Installed Radar "Sapphire 25" with the calculator AVM-25, capable of detecting targets with more than 10 m² of the RCS at a distance of 100 km

МиГ-25ПД («изделие 84Д», 1978 год) — истребитель-перехватчик. Установлен радиолокатор «Сапфир-25» с вычислителем АВМ-25, способный обнаруживать цели с ЭПР более 10 м² на расстоянии 100 км

http://modernweapon.ru/aviatsiya/istreb ... -sssr.html
http://army-world.ru/?page_id=928

On the first night of the war, two F/A-18s from the carrier USS Saratoga were flying outside of Baghdad when two Iraqi MiG-25s engaged them. In the beyond-visual-range (BVR) kill, an Iraqi MiG-25 piloted by Zuhair Dawood fired an R-40RD missile. The missile impacted Scott Speicher's F/A-18 head on. The impact sent the aircraft spiraling downwards. The wreckage was discovered in 1993; Speicher was buried near his wrecksite by local bedouin nomads. Russian sources claim also numerous other hits on coalition aircraft, however only a clumsy effort appears to have been made to match the supposed events to actual coalition aircraft being damaged or lost – often these claims are on wrong date compared to the actual aircraft damage or loss time and place, except Speicher's Hornet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

17Jan91 96FS MiG-25PDS witheld R-40RD F/A-18C AA400 VFA-83/USN (note 6)

http://www.acig.info/CMS/?option=com_co ... &Itemid=47

RCS F/A-18C = 1-3m2 (add missile, extra fuel tank, ECM pod, targeting pod)
MiG-25 can detected F/A-18C from 74km and shot down it from 50 km (R-40RD specs, R-40RD can reach to 60-80 km)

Wikipedia is not a source .... The Jan 17 1991 incident was not like what written in wikipedia ... There was 10 F/A-18s in two 5 ship formations plus 8 A-6E and 3 EA-6B
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basher54321

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Unread post10 Oct 2015, 11:43

neurotech wrote:Recent news reports have confirmed that USAF F-16s are now using IRST pods for long range Visual ID over Syria. F/A-18F Super Hornets also have IRST pods and some crews miss flying the F-14 with its TCS capability.


Over the Balkans F-16AMs have been flying with pods for a few years now.

Taking some of the Iraqi weather into account the TCS might have been useless in some situations compared to using a much longer range EID.

p.s. die thread die
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blackuday

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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 06:30

oldiaf wrote:
blackuday wrote:
oldiaf wrote:So .. Nothing wrong in what I said ... The F/A-18 locked the MiG-25 first


Any official sources confirm? not from forum ok !

F / A-18, as you say, APG-65 radar was detected early MiG-25 from 90km, but I did read the capacitliy of the APG-65 radar can detect targets (perhaps the fundamental plane) from 80 nautical miles = 148km.....again, the US radar is not working properly advertise

Image

F-15 used to AIM-9 and AWACS attack on MiG-21

[url]F-15 Versus MiG-21

On 2 June 1979, Israeli F-4 Phantoms and A-4 Skyhawks flew to attack suspected terrorist bases near Sidon in southern Lebanon. Flying cover for the attack aircraft was a force of six F-15s and two Israeli-built Kafir fighters. All aircraft were guided by an E-2C AWACS (Airborne Warning And Control System) aircraft, a modified 747 that carried sophisticated radar and tracking equipment.

At approximately 11:00 a.m., the attack force was bounced by 8 to 12 Syrian MiG-21 aircraft. The F-15s and Kafirs immediately identified and engaged the MiG-21s. Within a three-minute period, six Syrian MiG-21s were downed and several others were reportedly damaged.

Of the six downed MiG-21s, four were destroyed by infrared homing missiles, one by a Sparrow radar-guided missile, and one by gunfire at close range. Five “kills” were given to F-15s and one to a Kafir.

The Israelis continued their reconnaissance flights, and on 19 September 1979, the MiG-23 made its combat debut when a flight of these newer Soviet-made aircraft fired air-to-air missiles at an Israeli F-4 Phantom. The F-4 was able to avoid the missiles (probably AA-8 Aphid infrared homing types) and return safely to base.

The Israeli intelligence service determined that a similar attack was planned five days later. So, on 24 September 1979, F-15s were again flying high cover when the controlling AWACS aircraft detected a large group of MiG-21s approaching. In this second brief air battle, four more MiG-21s were shot down. Again no F-15s were lost.[/url]


http://www.flightsimbooks.com/f15strike ... f_F-15.php

As I said, the American airplanes they advertise most, with APG radar long range and without independent AWACS can still operational, although the rival aircraft are large RCS

MiG-25 is a less maneuverable aircraft and large RCS, I think the radar APG having a problem that is calculate their speed, can they detect them in the range of advertising, but tracking them it is another matte.

In the case of MiG-25 and F / A-18, I think the F / A-18 was able to detect the MiG-25 at the 148km range, but because the MiG-25 at Mach 2.5 in practice flight, radar APG-65 therefore can only track it in the range of 90 km....The problem here, range detection, tracking range and attack range , the 3 different concepts

F/A-18C can detected MiG-25 from 148 km
But F/A-18C just can tracking MiG-25 from 90km
And F/A-18C just can engaged MiG-25 from 75 km (AIM-120B specs, head-on engagement)

No AIM-120 in DS ... The F/A-18C were carrying AIM-7 ... and regarding source ... The Iraqi pilot sent me the details himself


one again, you wrong

A small number of AMRAAMs were carried by F-15 aircraft during Operation Desert Storm

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article3.html

AIM-7M max range 88km. Its range is still far more than the R-40

http://www.pmulcahy.com/aams/us_aams.htm
Last edited by blackuday on 11 Oct 2015, 07:07, edited 4 times in total.
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blackuday

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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 06:31

oldiaf wrote:
blackuday wrote:MiG-25PD ("the product 84 A", 1978) - fighter-interceptor. Installed Radar "Sapphire 25" with the calculator AVM-25, capable of detecting targets with more than 10 m² of the RCS at a distance of 100 km

МиГ-25ПД («изделие 84Д», 1978 год) — истребитель-перехватчик. Установлен радиолокатор «Сапфир-25» с вычислителем АВМ-25, способный обнаруживать цели с ЭПР более 10 м² на расстоянии 100 км

http://modernweapon.ru/aviatsiya/istreb ... -sssr.html
http://army-world.ru/?page_id=928

On the first night of the war, two F/A-18s from the carrier USS Saratoga were flying outside of Baghdad when two Iraqi MiG-25s engaged them. In the beyond-visual-range (BVR) kill, an Iraqi MiG-25 piloted by Zuhair Dawood fired an R-40RD missile. The missile impacted Scott Speicher's F/A-18 head on. The impact sent the aircraft spiraling downwards. The wreckage was discovered in 1993; Speicher was buried near his wrecksite by local bedouin nomads. Russian sources claim also numerous other hits on coalition aircraft, however only a clumsy effort appears to have been made to match the supposed events to actual coalition aircraft being damaged or lost – often these claims are on wrong date compared to the actual aircraft damage or loss time and place, except Speicher's Hornet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

17Jan91 96FS MiG-25PDS witheld R-40RD F/A-18C AA400 VFA-83/USN (note 6)

http://www.acig.info/CMS/?option=com_co ... &Itemid=47

RCS F/A-18C = 1-3m2 (add missile, extra fuel tank, ECM pod, targeting pod)
MiG-25 can detected F/A-18C from 74km and shot down it from 50 km (R-40RD specs, R-40RD can reach to 60-80 km)

Wikipedia is not a source .... The Jan 17 1991 incident was not like what written in wikipedia ... There was 10 F/A-18s in two 5 ship formations plus 8 A-6E and 3 EA-6B


And evidence from the forum by you write out the official source? :mrgreen:

oldiaf wrote:
blackuday wrote:All just a personal opinion, the US radar completely not good as advertised, remember the Iraq War, the F / A-18 was shot down by MiG-25 with medium-range missiles, MiG-25 has a larger RCS F / A-18. F / A-18 has better FCR, can detect the MiG-25 at longer ranges

The Iraqi MiG-25 was locked by an F/A-18 piloted by CMDR Mike Anderson long before it fired on Speicher plane but the AWACS didn't permit CMDR Anderson to fire ... Read the full story here : -
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27861
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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 06:44

eloise wrote:
blackuday wrote:
P/S : :? your main problem is that you have such a strong anti American agenda that you refused to accept any information that doesn't support your point of view , we can explain things to you all days and whatever doesn't fit your agenda that American weapon suck will be considered propaganda ,so what the point ? if you want to hear people say " yeah ,US weapon are just advertising ,never work ..etc " then why even bother coming here ? why not come to some Chinese or Russian forum ? iam sure there will be many members there that will say exactly what you want to hear


Because Americans have hidden away all their failures

They make propaganda through the program History Channel, NatGeo or Discovery

I assure you they never dared said about the failure of F-Fighter: MiG-21 and MiG-25 shot down F-4/111/105/18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFX-U0gZRfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGVdXI54iKA

Well as propaganda, MiG-21 had F-15 in HUD and can fire broken wing F-15, but Israel said it was the collision with A-4

Image
Image

Israel has never publicly the identity and fate of the pilots A-4 collided with the F-15 :mrgreen:
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oldiaf

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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 09:44

Some AIM-120 were carried but not used
And regarding Speicher :
http://www.pownetwork.org/saudi/sd017_2.htm
Do you want some of the pilots names in the mission also :
Tony Albano
Bob Stumpf
Barry Hull
Dave Renaud
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eloise

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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 13:33

blackuday wrote:
Because Americans have hidden away all their failures

They make propaganda through the program History Channel, NatGeo or Discovery

:doh: you still cannot look pass your biased agenda :?
do you honestly believed that Russian , China ,EU ..etc doesnt do exactly the same thing ? really ? come on :doh: a few seconds google search will show you load of Russian , China or European propaganda BS
for example :
http://in.sputniknews.com/indian.ruvr.r ... Cook-5786/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Isk ... te_note-15
..etc
blackuday wrote:I assure you they never dared said about the failure of F-Fighter: MiG-21 and MiG-25 shot down F-4/111/105/18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFX-U0gZRfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGVdXI54iKA

the amount of F-14/111/105 shot down in Vietnam war are actually pretty well recorded
same for the F-18 shot down in Gulf war or the F-117 shot down in Serbia
they may not appear on television but if you read a book or two they are all in there
blackuday wrote:Well as propaganda, MiG-21 had F-15 in HUD and can fire broken wing F-15, but Israel said it was the collision with A-4

Image


Israel has never publicly the identity and fate of the pilots A-4 collided with the F-15 :mrgreen:

are you aware that the picture is photoshoped ?
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8293&start=45
http://forums.airforce.ru/holodnaya-voi ... ografii-7/
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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 13:51

neurotech wrote:One of the stupidly ironic parts of the RoE was that the USAF insisted on IFF confirmation before shooting at the hostile fighter, yet the US Navy F-14s had TCS and could get a long range Visual ID well before the F-15Cs could close in for a Visual ID.

.

F-15 was supposed to have TISEO originally but then that was cancelled for cost reason in 1972 .In 1987, the development of a new gen. electro optical sensor was initiated. The "Eagle Eye III" was to be mounted in the same left wing root space originally reserved for TISEO. Funding problems cancelled it again :doh: for visual identification many F-15 pilot carry a Leupold high powered rifle-scope mounted on the HUD
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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 14:34

blackuday wrote:when two Iraqi MiG-25s engaged them. In the beyond-visual-range (BVR) kill, an Iraqi MiG-25 piloted by Zuhair Dawood fired an R-40RD missile. The missile impacted Scott Speicher's F/A-18 head on. The impact sent the aircraft spiraling downwards. The wreckage was discovered in 1993; Speicher was buried near his wrecksite by local bedouin nomads. Russian sources claim also numerous other hits on coalition aircraft, however only a clumsy effort appears to have been made to match the supposed events to actual coalition aircraft being damaged or lost – often these claims are on wrong date compared to the actual aircraft damage or loss time and place, except Speicher's Hornet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign

17Jan91 96FS MiG-25PDS witheld R-40RD F/A-18C AA400 VFA-83/USN (note 6)

http://www.acig.info/CMS/?option=com_co ... &Itemid=47

RCS F/A-18C = 1-3m2 (add missile, extra fuel tank, ECM pod, targeting pod)
MiG-25 can detected F/A-18C from 74km and shot down it from 50 km (R-40RD specs, R-40RD can reach to 60-80 km)

Capt.Zuhair Dawood flew alone, the two Iraqi MiG-25s indicated by the report back to another incident with F-111s near Tikrit.
The wreckage was discovered in 1995 as i heard,the canopy was 5Km away of the wreckage and the pilot suit and the parachute about 1Km from the wreckage, the pilot buried south the highway (named Kilo 160) and his remains found after 2003.
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eloise

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Unread post11 Oct 2015, 16:10

blackuday wrote:one again, you wrong

A small number of AMRAAMs were carried by F-15 aircraft during Operation Desert Storm

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_armament_article3.html

Actually he isn't wrong, F-18 didn't carry AIM-120 in that case
blackuday wrote:AIM-7M max range 88km. Its range is still far more than the R-40

http://www.pmulcahy.com/aams/us_aams.htm

missiles range are not a constant value, it depending alot on launch speed, launch altitude, target speed, target altitude, aspect angle.
Most source agree that average range of AIM-7 is about 40-60 km so actually not superior to R-40 at all, and it's main disadvantage is that it is SARH thus aircraft have to guide it until impact.
Nevertheless, the F-18 vs Mig-25 incident was due to ROE, IFF problem rather than the capabilities of the fighter themselves
Last edited by eloise on 11 Oct 2015, 18:37, edited 1 time in total.
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