Carrier stealth aircraft

Now this is not to be considered a why is the air force getting all the goodies, but just a hypothetical question. Would it be possible to refitt a fighter like the F-22 for carrier launch and landing, could we augment the fighter for CTOL/STOL? I'm curious because the NAVY requires a better replacement to the aged F-14D Super Tomcat than the F/A-18E/F Hornet. I know that people will argue that the F/A-18 E/F fills the F-14D role well, but lets face it stealth is coming in and the JSF isn't going to cut it as a maritime defense platform. A modifed F-22 would be very appropriate for the situation at hand.

Any input regarding this hypothetical not actual idea would be great.

The F-35 is going to replace the F/A-18E, no need for the F-22.

hp9577 wrote:Now this is not to be considered a why is the air force getting all the goodies, but just a hypothetical question. Would it be possible to refitt a fighter like the F-22 for carrier launch and landing, could we augment the fighter for CTOL/STOL? I'm curious because the NAVY requires a better replacement to the aged F-14D Super Tomcat than the F/A-18E/F Hornet. I know that people will argue that the F/A-18 E/F fills the F-14D role well, but lets face it stealth is coming in and the JSF isn't going to cut it as a maritime defense platform. A modifed F-22 would be very appropriate for the situation at hand.

Any input regarding this hypothetical not actual idea would be great.

It was going to be NATF. Which was cancelled about 3 seconds after the F-22 was selected over the F-23.

Navy was to get the A-12, but was cancelled in the early 90's.

F/A-18E/F has limited LO capabilities.

F-35 will compliment F/A-18E/F, but it's not it's replacement. F-35 will replace older F/A-18C/D models.

First of all to Kaasjager the F-35 is replacing the F/A-18 C/D models and the AV8B Harrier models in the US marine corps. It will be replacing the C/D models as well in the US Navy, but also retiring the A6 Intruders and A7 that are still in service for the F-35's assigned role. Naval air security is not to be regulated to that aircraft, instead it will fall on the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets for that purpose. That is why I am curious to know whether or not the F-22 would be cross transferrable to a naval air superiority fighter.

Thank sferrin for the image of what was supposed to be, but was scrapped.

Still the acutal body of the F-22 would seem to fit onboard a carrier if only the wings could be adjusted like on the F-35 or the F/A-18 to fold upward and lock in place and then back down to form solid stage wings.

Oh well idea for another day i guess...hard to say what future technology might bring. Maybe an F-22 type fighter will eventually roll across a carrier deck.

hp9577 wrote:Now this is not to be considered a why is the air force getting all the goodies, but just a hypothetical question.

Basically, the USAF got the F-22 because it initiated the project and fought very hard for it. What the USN does is its own affair, except for joint programs like JSF, which happens to benefit from the development of the F-22. I realize that you didn't want to address this question, but I wanted to mention that last part, for what it's worth.

hp9577 wrote:Would it be possible to refitt a fighter like the F-22 for carrier launch and landing,

I'm pretty sure that it could be done, but it's hard to tell just how much work (and therefore money) it would take. I'd guess a lot since the USN wasn't very interested, or maybe that's because of the cost of each airframe alone. If the USN doesn't feel that they need such an expensive fighter for its flight performance, then it was smart of them to allow the USAF to develop the F-22 and all of the technology that goes along with it in order to help reduce the cost and risk of the eventual Naval and Marine JSF variants.

hp9577 wrote:could we augment the fighter for CTOL/STOL?

If you have STOVL like the F-35B in mind, then that would seem quite impractical without a complete redesign. Obviously, the F-35 was designed with this variant in mind from the start.

hp9577 wrote:I'm curious because the NAVY requires a better replacement to the aged F-14D Super Tomcat than the F/A-18E/F Hornet.

I tend to agree, although the USN is trying to streamline their operations by using fewer types that are more versatile and less demanding logistically. Since their greatest perceived threat has shifted from bomber and fighter formations to high-speed anti-ship missiles, their focus may shift (if it hasn't already) to shipboard defenses such as the Rolling Airframe Missile and of course theater defense with Aegis and the SM-2.

hp9577 wrote:I know that people will argue that the F/A-18 E/F fills the F-14D role well, but lets face it stealth is coming in and the JSF isn't going to cut it as a maritime defense platform. A modifed F-22 would be very appropriate for the situation at hand.

I'm also generally in favor of giving naval aviation the same level of platform capability as our land-based air force, particularly since the USN will often, depending on the type of conflict, be the first service on the scene in force. However, in practical terms, I think that the F-35C will fill in admirably if the Super Bug cannot.

sferrin wrote:It was going to be NATF. Which was cancelled about 3 seconds after the F-22 was selected over the F-23.

Would they have been more interested in the F-23? I don't see why. At the time, they were quite skittish about ambitious programs because of their A-12 experience, and probably figured that the JSF was the pragmatic way to go in order to minimize their investments and risk (they have enough to worry about regarding their ships).

Lurch wrote:F/A-18E/F has limited LO capabilities.

Combined with the APG-79, it should do alright for a good while in the more limited fleet defense role that the USN seem to believe they need.

Lurch wrote:F-35 will compliment F/A-18E/F, but it's not it's replacement. F-35 will replace older F/A-18C/D models.

Yes, for the time being, the F-35C will be the new strike fighter, while the F/A-18E/F will perform just about every other role, including stand-off EW with the G model. It's inferior to the older platforms in some roles but actually slightly superior in others, and should be quite practical overall for the USN, regardless of its perceived shortcomings.

RobertCook wrote:Would they have been more interested in the F-23? I don't see why.

Ironically, at the time it was determined that the Lockheed had done more homework on making a naval version of the F-22 than Northrop had done with their's and that factored in the selection process. I say ironically because they soon cancelled the NATF program. (Not because they wanted the F-23 but because there were no $$$$)

IMO the USN will not see F-22-like capability for decades if ever. When the Super Hornets reach the end of their lives they'll probably just replace them with more F-35s.

sferrin wrote:
When the Super Hornets reach the end of their lives they'll probably just replace them with more F-35s.

You don't think the Navy will come up with the "Super Duper Hornet"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hp9577 wrote:Naval air security is not to be regulated to that aircraft, instead it will fall on the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornets for that purpose.

Whether you agree or not, the F-18E/Fs is the Navy's aircraft of choice for now (until the F-35Cs comes along). If you don't agree, I suggest talking with the Navy's CNO or Chief of Naval Air Forces (or whatever they call him) and see if you can persuade them.

That is why I am curious to know whether or not the F-22 would be cross transferrable to a naval air superiority fighter.

I suppose anything is possible with a lot of R&D and $$$. But still, don't expect that NF-22 to be close to the USAF's F-22 in terms of flight performance.

Maybe an F-22 type fighter will eventually roll across a carrier deck.

Don't hold your breath.

Wont happen... Budgetary concerns suck a$$.

Something along this line?



http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8128/f35ejpeg4sf.jpg

dwightlooi wrote:Something along this line?



http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8128/f35ejpeg4sf.jpg

If you're going to do fiction at least put a top of the line nozzle on it. Fluidic thrust vectoring.

To be honest I don't mind that the Super Hornet is the naval combat fighter of choice, but lets face it an F-35C is not an anti-aircraft platform. I know it sucks to admit that, but its the truth. To be honest I understand the idea of the whole defense against anti-ship missiles, but that was the original purpose of fighters to locate possible threats and neutralize them before they could close within launching range. That's why the Navy operates their own AWACS aircraft in the form of the E-2C.

Aegis ships are not the perfect solution they are compliment to fighters on patrol. Also phalanx guns and the rolling missiles are fine defensive weapons, but still the best defense against anything is to stop the fighter, bomber, or whatever from launching the weapon in the first place.

To be honest I really feel that stealth aircraft will appear in the Navy eventually. It kind of goes along this line the original F/A-18 wasn't chosen until after its concept was defeated by the F-16 design. So maybe some design that is in the burner will get a lovely refitt to be brought to the carrier deck.

I have a new question what is everybody's opinion on switchblade wings. I know about forward swept wings and how they require a fighter to have canards that electronically stabilize the aircraft, but not too much about the switchblade idea...any info would be helpful.

oh i forgot in my last post what is you guy's idea for the future of cockpit design..mine honestly is that there will no longer be solid clear canopies as we know them. Instead they will be covered and rely on cameras to project the image of what is outside the fighter onto internal screens. Such a design I think offers a little more protection for the pilot, but i don't know...another opinion question I guess.

hp9577 wrote:To be honest I don't mind that the Super Hornet is the naval combat fighter of choice, but lets face it an F-35C is not an anti-aircraft platform. I know it sucks to admit that, but its the truth. To be honest I understand the idea of the whole defense against anti-ship missiles, but that was the original purpose of fighters to locate possible threats and neutralize them before they could close within launching range. That's why the Navy operates their own AWACS aircraft in the form of the E-2C.

Aegis ships are not the perfect solution they are compliment to fighters on patrol. Also phalanx guns and the rolling missiles are fine defensive weapons, but still the best defense against anything is to stop the fighter, bomber, or whatever from launching the weapon in the first place.

To be honest I really feel that stealth aircraft will appear in the Navy eventually. It kind of goes along this line the original F/A-18 wasn't chosen until after its concept was defeated by the F-16 design. So maybe some design that is in the burner will get a lovely refitt to be brought to the carrier deck.

I have a new question what is everybody's opinion on switchblade wings. I know about forward swept wings and how they require a fighter to have canards that electronically stabilize the aircraft, but not too much about the switchblade idea...any info would be helpful.

The F-35C is an anti-aircraft platform as well as an anti-surface platform. Even though it may not be as good as the F-22 in this role it is in EVERYWAY superior to the F-18E/F. It'll be faster in a typical A2A configuration, it'll be longer ranged, it'll have better endurance, it'll have better acceleration, at least as good agility, it'll have better sensors, it'll have better pilot interfaces and most importantly it'll be stealthy. In short, you'll rather fly the F-35C in offensive fighter sweeps than the F-18E/F. As a fleet CAP platform, it'll carry as many AAMs and stay aloft longer. The only reason the F-18E/F was even created was that there was a HUGE gap (15 years) between F-35s entering service with the Navy, and when it needs fighters to replace the retiring F-14 and to a lesser degree F-18A/Bs (these were supposed to have been replaced by the A-12 but that was stillborn). And the only reason the F-18E/F will be retained alongside the F-35 is that they will still be relatively new and they will be good enough for less demanding missions.